Supply houses selling to home owners

gerry gill · July 2005

high end customers want quality work and are not about to do it themselves..they pay top dollar for the best..so give them the best..you'll work less but make more..i'd rather be the kohler of the service industry than compete with all the hacks in the middle ground area..sell them ''you'', and youre the best, and you ain't cheap..right?

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Biged · July 2005

Supply houses selling to home owners

O.K. I doing a quote for a boiler job and was asking about the Buderus boilers, only to find out that they will sell the same boiler to a home owner for practically the same price. I know, a sale is a sale is a sale is a sale, but shouldn't they at least make it a little easier for the trade guys and harder for home owners to buy parts and equipment that professional should be installing. If any "Joe" or "Sue" can go to the supply house to get parts and equipment that should be installed by professionals why does the manufacturers not allow guys in the trade to buy bulk parts or equipment direct? why does the supply houses have exclusive rights to buy from the manufacturers and then turn around and sell to every Tom **** and Harry? No wonder there are so many hacks out there.Something doesn't seem right to me.

don_120 · July 2005

You see

BigEd,its because you or I are not important to them.Soon
you and I will be hire out for labor only.

I get five work order in the mail every week from a company that sell directly to the home owners.Asking if I would like to bid on installing the equipment and at the same time cut my own throat.

Yea sure..NOT!

Terry · July 2005

protection

I agree 100%. Too many supply house operate this way.

AS a supplier, I pride myself in supporting the trade by ALWAYS protecting my contractors when quoting "cash sales".

In addition to a higher price, I also warn HO's that if they buy the equipment and hire the trade for install only.. any warranty issues (on equipment) will fall upon the HO, not the installer...
Therefore it is prudent to have their Contractor supply the equipment so that any warranty onus falls upon the installer and not the HO.

if the HO decides to buy anyway AND the installer is an account holder.. I credit the difference in price TO THE CONTRACTOR's account...

I can't think of a fairer way to do business. (short of kicking cash sales out of the building and watching them go to my competitors)

regards,
Einsiedler

Richard D. · July 2005

I agree

with you..Most of Our suppliers in Maine DO NOT sell to the HO!!!They are there for us...not the home depot is anothere story lol.. we have hackers here as welland some call themselfs Masters !! go figure ...Rich

DanHolohan · July 2005

I'll bet you

if you had a Find a Professional ad here you would get better quality leads. In fact, many of the contractors who advertise here say that they get to qualify the customers, rather than the other way around.

Small investment in a better way of doing business. Food for thought?

Bruce M. · July 2005

80 Billion in Sales for Home Depot

That is the projected sales this year for Home Depot. If anyone thinks they are about to change Home Depot's sales tactics you are in for a surprize. Anyone can go to a car dealer's parts department and buy any part a licensed mechanic can buy no matter the skill level required to install the part. Those that don't sell to home owners are not maximizing their profit potential. The most foolish statements that I have heard are from those who refuse to buy a product if it is sold in Home Depot. As I see it, Home Depot keeps a good number of American companies in business by encouraging them to be more productive so that they can compete with Chinese companies. For example, I am not going to stop using Taco products because they are available in HD. The way to differentiate yourself is by doing quality work and providing an end product that will save the home owner money in reduced operating expenses and higher comfort levels.

don_120 · July 2005

And I love

you too.So how much are we willin to wager? Just Kidding.

Actually Dan,I've been thinking about signing up for along time now,and when I get to the shop tomorrow morning I'll
make it happen.

I like the part of qualiying the customer,you just sold me
with that statement.

Ted_9 · July 2005

I like the way you do business.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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Jeff Lawrence_24 · July 2005

Where I am,

In Georgia(the headquarters of HD), you can't buy any kind of heating equipment, except maybe for gas space heaters and (I know) gas fireplace logs. You can buy water heaters. We have conditioned air licensing here.

I prefer not to buy anthing related to my trade at HD or Lowes but I will if I have to. My wholesalers recommend me to people if they see a 'wet' job, because they know it's one of the things I do well.

Now, if HD stock would get back to where it was when Arthur and Bernie were running the show, I'd be a lot happier....

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don_120 · July 2005

No disrespect

intended,but you sir have your head in the sand.

Lets ask the guys up north who now have to compete with the big gas company,if they still have the same profit margin they once had.

And as for Hq making more companys better now they have to compete with china is the most foolish statement I ever herd.They can only compete if they drop thier prices.And when you start dropping your prices to compete then some where something has to get cut,and in most cases its quality.

And once you start doing that the next thing to follow is
going out of business..the same thing that happen to the mom and pops hardware stores.

DanHolohan · July 2005

Thanks, and if you need to be more convinced

go to Google, Yahoo, Alta Vista, Ask Jeeves, and any of the other major search engines and type, "heating systems" into the box. Look at where HeatingHelp.com comes up.

Then do the same with the work, "heating."

Where do consumers look for information nowadays? Where do they shop.

It pays to be in Find a Pro.

Dave Yates (PAH) · July 2005

Imagine you're the wholesaler

HO's use your showroom to garner ideas and then go to the Big Box DIY places to compare pricing.

Contractors use you to perform heat loss/gain calcs, let you quote the materials and then take that list to shop it at other wholesale houses.

HO walks in off the street - turns out to be a lawyer - threatens to sue if you deny him the purchase.

HO's and/or contractors "inform" the supply house, they can buy the item at the BBDIY center for less.

Gives a contractor a lead & the contractor leads the cust to someone elses goods! (Same goes for manufacturer-based leads - I never burn those bridges.)

I'm not a wholesaler & I place my sales (whenever I can) with the local wholesalers who provide me with better than average service (pricing is secondary). I don't shop prices if they've helped me with the design - tain't kosher. BBDIY gets virtually nothing from me for PHVAC goods & won't.

Changes brewing: direct sales to contractors from manufacturers - bypassing traditional distribution channels.

Be glad you're not a wholesaler!

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Bob Sweet · July 2005

Let's put this on a level playing field.

With your analogy, I say let's do away with licensing, however I have to work under a STATE mandated license if I am caught practicing my trade without one, the loss of license is possible ,not to mention any other punishment the Administrative Authority wishes to levy upon me or my employer.HD has NO ethics and will sell anything to anyone BAR nothing. There are part's that HD sells that dont even meet CODE." Reduced operating cost's and improved comfort levels" work's for the high end equipment, I think that's great.For the average Tradesperson it doesn't work, and their going down in flames, all for the BOTTOM LINE , I think HD and all these other Supply houses, owe their prosperity to the Tradesmen and are screwing them all the way to the Bank..imho.

gerry gill · July 2005

i'm with you Dave,

i've often been told my favorite supply house is not that cheap, i tell the other plumbers there is a reason for this..quality people, who know their products, and are available to answer any tech questions, boy, you just can't beat good 'ol service..and yes its not cheap..i never shop prices..i have a rapport with the supply house and they with me..i order stuff, i pay their price, and i'm treated very well..life is fine..

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Bob Sweet · July 2005

I agree go high end sell yourself!!

Just give the Big Box boy's time they'll be movin in on that end of the market as well. It's progressive just ask the home town hardware store.

. · July 2005

So basically, you guys believe in capitalism and free markets...except for items on which you want to have a monopoly, so people can get a Buderus only if you are the middleman and add your cut to the hardware price.

The problem is, you can't win that game. If you don't make a sale by adding value, people will buy something else, they won't buy something from you purely because they have no choice in the matter.

It's like how the US was so gung-ho on opening up international markets, because we thought this meant selling US products to the world. Well, now that India is using the net and the phone lines to sell their labor to the US, we no longer talk about how free markets and unfettered capitalism are such a wonderul thing.

Firedragon_4 · July 2005

Just one point Dave,

'HO walks in off the street - turns out to be a lawyer - threatens to sue if you deny him the purchase.'

This is still America, you can refuse to sell or service anyone as long as it's not an issue of discrimanation.

After you sell him once, you can only stop for a credit problem. The trick is somehow to choose your customers like they shop for contractors. Unh-hunh and that proves nothing (LOL).

stonehouse_2 · July 2005

The name game...

Hey, it ain't kosher to hide behind a pseudonym especially when it uses my last name!

Alex Marx
aka "The Wire Nut"

gerry gill · July 2005

yup, but remember that hardware store,

shame to see 'em gone..the guys who worked there usually knew every plumbing part that was common to their neighborhoods..they really knew their stuff..go to home dump and get some high school kid who doesnt know where the restroom is yet alone what parts fit a century old standard faucet..tis a shame..

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LEAD PIPE · July 2005

When

When I had my system installed the contractor gave me a parts list and told me a few places to call to order the parts.I paid for everything had it all delivered and called him when it arrived. I thought he was nuts until a pump went bad, I didn't even call him I called the supply house and got a new one and installed it myself. I never viewed it as something he should take care of. I bought a bad pump, not him.

Dave Yates (PAH) · July 2005

maybe so

But I witnessed that one day while waiting behind the "customer" who was holding up the counter while we pros waited for service. Quite a display of hubris!

Don't rightly know if a supply house can actually deny a sale to someone off the street. While they can make them wade through a sea of paperwork in order to open an account, if they take cash sales from contractors, they may be unable to refuse a cash sale to the customer off the street.

Glad I am to not be in their shoes!

On the other hand, I stop shopping at wholesale houses that actively promote sales to the DIY crowd. I wouldn't mind if they maintained a separate counter and manned it well for the pros, but I'll be damned if I'll waste my time waiting while some numb-chuck ties up a counter while seeking advice - I'm on a customers time & owe that customer rapid service.

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Unknown · July 2005

Biged,,,

The very best thing that happens when you are listed in Dan's FAP link is that you no longer have talk to the people that are only interested in the lowest price. You can talk to them for a while but, the whole conversation is what we are talking about when we say "qualifying." The BEST advice I ever got was from a brother Wallie ME AKA (Mark Eatherton) He was at that time a HUGE Buderus man. To my knowlege still sells this good line but,the important part is; you have to read more and decide for yourself.
b
FAP is a tool. If you want or need a tool to find and qualify clients and seperates you from "the rest" this FAP tool is the best your heating contractor **** can have. IMHO.

WRT any speculative lawsuits touched upon should be saved for another thread. IMO . No harm intended FD or Yatesey:-)

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Rodney Summers · July 2005

After 35 years in this business,

I have never, ever, gotten a bigger bang for my extremely limited advertising budget/buck than with my "Find a Professional" ad up above!

I can think of four "killer" leads and jobs we got, as a direct result of the ad we have there. These jobs were so unique and so challenging, we have found they have cascaded into a tricky and typically "high end" referal base with it's own dynamic. The cash register just keeps going cha-ching from the momentum of the four unique "hits" that have morphed into a self generating referal network that we are still enjoying, with no let-up in sight.

In the words of some not-so-famous sage, "It don't get no betta 'n 'at"

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SVDW · July 2005

From a supply house perspective I have no idea why a wholesaler would deal direct. Thats a whole new raft of problems I don't need. I'm not going to spend my afternoon answering questions about installing a faucet with a guy who puts me on hold b/c his mommy is on the other line. The odd cash sale is unavoidable for various reasons but I'd rather hook the guy up with one of my contractors. I've told people they'd get a better price if they called X at XYZ plumbing & then give them the phone #. As far as doing install work for the BBOXes, the guys I've seen do it seem to go into a death spiral after a short time & end up working for somebody else. I guess the Big Orange Box is a tough guy to work for.......

DanHolohan · July 2005

And to take it a step further,

go to Google and type "hydronic heat" and then type "steam heat" and look at where HeatingHelp.com appears in the listing.

It amazes me that so many contractors still can't make the connection between an ad on this site and finding quality customers. Savvy contractors do, though. Thanks for pointing that out once again, Ken.

Firedragon_4 · July 2005

You hit the nail

right on the head Dave. You don't fight, you switch!

If they want to survive by hurting tradesmen, that's their right, but I have my rights too.

I'll speak with my checkbook and they are done in my book, OEM's and wholesalers.

Firedragon_4 · July 2005

One of the biggest

wholesale suppliers in New England, to HD, is now opening more and more retail outlets of their own.

We're all products of our environments. 'If they can do it, we can do it' and guess who taught them.

Still, I saw the once mighty 'Somerville Lumber' go this route and where are they now, bankrupt. They should have quit when they were a good supply house, 'Somerville Supply' FACT!

Education is expensive!

Rodney Summers · July 2005

Love your e-mail moniker!

There is unfortunately, much more truth in what you wrote than most can understand. One cannot have his cake - and eat it.

Or can we? (;-o)

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DanHolohan · July 2005

That goes

for both good and bad education, George.

Noel Kelly_3 · July 2005

Let's not forget service!

There is a distinct difference between the quality of service amongst supply houses. Some bend over backwards while others couldn't care less. Until this fundamental attitude changes, the struggle will continue to be uphill for some.

Noel Kelly

eric_2 · July 2005

Supply house sales

There really is an art in attempting to keep an equal balance between contractor and homeowner sales. Suprisingly enough, I don't run into many issues when it comes to equipment sales. It probably stems from the fact that we take the time to explain to the HO that if they have problems or issues, it's going to cost them alot more in the long run in service calls. And they also NEVER get contractor pricing. That would unfair to my trades and devastating to my buisness. That being said, I also have a showroom and that's where the real fun begins. First we have to identify who their contractor actually is (and it's amazing how much work brother Bob does). Until that is established, they receive a list price bid. Then after spending several hours and appointments you get to have your prices shopped online or at the big boxes or taken to the competition. We attempt to have all discounting go through the contractors but sometimes the HO is determined to purchase themselves, regardless of warranty and we will take the sale. Just like everyone else, we need to keep sales here and not at our competition. But even in that case, they receive a discounted price but not contractor pricing and we will work with the contractor on any price allowances. It pains me to see some contractors opinions of a supply house for attempting to stay in buisness by dealing with homeowners. Especially when we work so hard to keep the contractor's best interest in mind. Just my 2 cents....

Firedragon_4 · July 2005

Amen!

Pat K · July 2005

This just in= it seems they sell automobile parts right over the counter to any one!!!!!!

Dammit dont they know that there are "certified " mechanics for that stuff.

The nerve.

Rick of N&S Supply of Catskill · July 2005

Contractors First!

We sell parts etc. To homeowners, NOT HVAC & Hydronic equipment! If a homeowner is in line at our counter our counterguys politely ask them to step aside and get the contractors taken care of. Believe me when I tell you that over the counter sales is a very small portion of our business and homeowners pricing is WAY higher than contractors. We are extremely loyal to the people who are loyal to us, not the once a year homeowner needing a faucet. That's why we lost most of those sales to Home Depot when they opened up...

Jim_47 · July 2005

Supply House

Locally here there is one large supply house that has figured the way to handle homeowner sales. They have about 2000 sq feet of "store" up in the front. The store contains stuff like solder plungers and some valves. At the front door they have a girl at the register. there is a sign at the register "CASH sales only" The counter in the back has a sign that says "OPEN accounts ONLY" You have to enter thru a door way marked in a similar fashion. If a Homeowner wants to buy a boiler they have to get it from the front register. This girl is a cashier and gives ZERO advice. No open account, No advice. On their account application it asks for a certificate of insurance to be attached.

Has not stopped the public from buying but has helped the trade a little. BTW it did backfire for me once when I sent the wife (I mean MANAGMENT) in for a little part. She paid for it and was proud of that! About 35% more than the trade price for that item.

Mad Dog_2 · July 2005

Usually. when someone gets you from FAP

they are very disgusted and underwhemled by their search for a legit contractor. They are definitely a hefty cut above most HO's. $400 a year is NOTHING when it comes to advertsing - definitely a huge bang for one's buck. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2 · July 2005

It is very disheartening, isn't it?

My supplier also sells to HO's - every supply house I know does now, however, we get anywhere from 25-35%55 off. Find yourself a supply house that shows you some respect - they are out there. Mad Dog

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Darin Cook_3 · July 2005

Let the HO's buy their parts

With all the Home Depots and Lowes in our area we should have been smashed out of business by now. But quite to the contrary we are rising up to our best year so far. It is quite simple really, pursue the type of work that will be the most profitable for you. We only service what we install so we do not run on a bunch of leaky faucets or plugged up WM 68 series boilers. Nor am I running at 1:00 am on a no heat call for someone I do not know or equipment I did not install. Typically with the installations we do, the average Ho would not tackle, which is why we are there in the first place. Pursue high end work, there is more profit in it, more creativity, and those folks are NOT interested in doing any of it. Let the people who want to work on their own home do it. Let the people who want a cheap price use the moonlighter and try to get any warranty out of him. They can build a million more Big Box stores and it will not make a dent into our sales. Actually that is where I buy my tile board to build my pump panels, so the Big boxes are not all that bad.

Darin

Mad Dog_2 · July 2005

EVERY chance I get..............................................

I bash the big box stores and push the suppliers who support us. If everyone did it, we'd hurt them quite a bit. Mad Dog

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Firedragon_4 · July 2005

I'm with you

on that one MD, FACT!

Retail sales and sales to building contractors, etc., is an everyday thing. Having worked in wholesale for almost 9 years I know that it's much worse than has ever been discussed anywhere.

Pick your products and suppliers carefully, there are still plenty of good ones around.

Supply houses selling to home owners

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