I'm a pain

Rollie Peck

Hi Bob:

Your comment about teaching apprentices work ethics reminds me of an article in a business publication about a year ago stating that many businesses had discovered that it was better to teach an ethical person how to do the job than to try to teach a person with a knowledge of the job good ethics. I agree wholeheartedly. Unless a devious person is under constant close supervision, he or she can do you all kinds of dirt.

Rollie Peck, homeowner

Wayco Wayne_2

I'm a pain in the arse

to my apprentice. Yesterday I made him redo a condensate drain several times until it was beautiful. It was hot and I could see I was irritating him although I was trying to be as gentle as possible. I could read his mind, "It's just a gosh darn condensate drain from an A/C air handler what's the big deal. The big deal is you have to practice your precision in all facets of your work. It takes years to get it, that there's more to working than just getting it done. How can a job command your imagination if you're "just" getting it done. Look for ways to reach for quality and quality will reach you. It's a 2 way street. Think of it as giving to yourself. It makes the day go by so much nicer too. WW

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ScottMP

And Ya know what Wayne

When that young man is grown and working with an apprentice, he'll make that kid do something over untills its right. He'll tell the kid " My old Boss made me do something three times untill I did it right. I hated him for it, but ya know what. he was right ".

Its just like raising kids.

Scott

PS: Thats not to say your not a pain in the ****

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Eugene Silberstein 3

I second that!

Could not have been said any better. I second that, Scott and Wayne.

Scott, I'm running out of cologne. (snicker)

Scott Denny

My journeymen seem to enjoy making their apprentices do things over. I would say they're tougher on the apprentices than I was on them. When asked about it, they just smile and say, "Why should they be allowed to get away with sloppy, careless work? We weren't."
Rights of passage can be a ****.

ScottMP

The best

smelling teacher at the school

Be carefull the re-fills are a ****.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

I had one quit

over the issue of how tub drains were being run. He'd install the P-trap high & tight and then drop to the main drain with a 45-degree ell - a 3/4 S-trap! Try as I might, I couldn't get him to "see" that was an S-trap. Word got back to me that the next time I made him change another drain, he was quitting. I did. He did.

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Wayco Wayne_2

In my defense

The young man has been with me a year and a half and has improved greatly over that time. Nagging must work. He still needs to grow though. Plumb is plumb important. WW

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Wayco Wayne_2

In my defense

The young man has been with me a year and a half and has improved greatly over that time. Nagging must work. He still needs to grow though. Plumb is plumb important. WW

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bob young

sloppy ignorant helpers

if you are paying him to do it over because it is not up to snuff and he **** about it then he is probably a half a moron [ and i am being kind ] and will probably never get it and if you are not constantly inspecting his work will continue to do sloppy work whenever he figures he can get away with it. nothing worse than a wanna-be with no pride in his craft. stupid is forever. you should make him redo it on his own time and see how that grabs him.

Mad Dog_2

I'm with you Bob

Mad Dog

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Bob Sweet

This type of work is not

for everyone. You can't hold their hand, I understand cutting them some slack, if they repay you with an effort that is satisfactory great if they start up with an attitude get rid of them, I've found it's almost impossible to teach ethic's, when you get down to it that's what it's all about.

bob_44

Ya gotta be

plumb, level and square if you wanna get to pipe heaven.

Tharon

u wouldnt be a brother master mason bob


peace be with you


david c. broome

Mark Hunt

Necklace of shame


Ask me about that sometime.

Maddog knows!

Mark H

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clammy

Not a pain

If what you described is being tough i know the toughest mech around i believe he still makes all helpers say check 3 times when they complete a task and then pulls it apart and checks it 'if it ain't right he yells and screams and makes them re do it . In his still enduring work ethic he has had more helper and journey man get out of the business then where killed in the filming of the 10 commandments still in my book his work in any sitution and any day is usually the best of the best bullet bomb and terroist proof .Even though we where arch eneines at work i have to pay him all the respect i can and always refreerer to him as THE WORLD'S BEST MECHANIC and the king of comedy even though no helpers or journey man think thst he was even a little bit funny .For me his quality of work had lifted the level of the bar higher and made me raise mine to keep up with him .I rarely see him but we both always hear tales of each other recent adventures and both refer to each other as the world's best and when we do run into each other there is always a firm dirty hand shake and a mutal hug of very well eared respect ,so in my eyes riding a helper or journey man is totally a rite of passage between the best of the best and those who's name and birthday won't be remenbered or celebrated peace clammy

Bob Sweet

That's right Rollie

An ethical person will strive to learn what ever it is that they do to the best of their ability, and eventually will become a valued employee I'd bet money that you could look at the work history of the person who is knowledgable and unethical and see a lot of bouncing around from job to job, why?? Because their in it for themselves thats it thats the only reason. Alway's blaming the other Guy never taking responsibility for what they do. Those people ,like you said will demoralize others and take, take, take. It's just not worth the time.

REF

Always

travel to the east. My opinion is: manage your people properly and you will reap the rewards, mismanage and you will have all the headaches you can take. I think when things are explained and a simple please and thank you really go far to motivate a young person. No one likes to be treated with condemnation. I also believe that sometimes if a person does not have ability it is to their benefit to point them in a different direction. Either we manage folks better or learn Spanish. I like the quality point. It works..

Respectfully,
Richard Fox

PS. Stay on the level all.

David Sutton_6

Old man Vinnie...

Did the same thing to me when i started 22 yrs ago....Man i love that guy!!!!!!!!!

Wayco Wayne_2

Rhichard

Thanks for your posts. I agree with you fully. I try to be respectful when correcting my apprentice. A typical comment starts with I'm sorry but.... and then I try to discuss what I want and how he can achieve it. It is still hard to do over, especially when it's hot and muggy. For some reason the A/C is broken wherever we go, and when it's fixxed we have to leave. Damn! After this episode I waited about 10 minutes and then discussed with him, how much better he has gotten at this trade since starting a year ago when he didn't have a clue about using a level or the importance of neatness. WW

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Jack Ennis Martin_2

teaching apprentices

I have read your comments regarding teaching apprentices and you have my compliments. I have seen too often journeymen { so called ] that have no time to teach young people. It is my considered opinion; the senior mechanic simpy does not know what he or she is doing. People who have confidence in their abllties want to pass on the knowledge they have gained over the years. The comment that drives me to angier is " if I teach him he will take my job"! Yes, he probably will, because you should not be in the trade to start with. I had to work for an absolute perfectionist when I was still in my very young teenage years -- my father. He would tell you to take it out and yell at you the entire time. I did not like the treatment and in alott of circustances I did not deserve it. However, when all is said and done, it has stood me in good stead in my years in the trade. The only irritating thing about the this line of "teaching" no one got the hell I did if my father disapproved of the workmanship. We never got along as father and son but in retrospect I thank him for the bawling out years ago.Funny, I worked my posterior off and come Saturday night I still did not have money for the movies -- was I missing something do you think???

All the best and hug your kids it does not cost anything and you may not end up alone in your old age.

Jack Ennis Martin

Scott Kneeland

When I was the apprentice the "old man " would tell me if I didn't fix it he would take it down with an axe.
He would also say "your not going to leave it that way"

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