Small boilers again.............

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Not available here, but the Vitodens 300 or 333

<A href=http://www.heizungs-discount.de/Online-Katalog/viessm1/Vitodens/vitodens.html>Vitodens German Line</A>

4-11 kw

13 - 37 mbh

(€1,890 about $2,295)

also

5-12 kw

17 - 40 mbh

also

6-26 kw

20 - 89 mbh

As I mentioned before, politely pester suppliers and, unfortunately, U.S. reps of European companies to bring in their full lines.

Steve Ebels_3

Small boilers again

I just finished a heat loss for an ICF house and there isn't a boiler out there that I know of that is sized right for the job. Heating load at design (-10*) is 30,849 btu's. The customer wants radiant floors in the basement and the first level, panel rads on the second floor. No huge tubs or anything else that will suck up gobs of btu's in the whole place.

I don't know if I can talk him into driving his radiant with a GSHP but that would be ideal. (Really low water temps required) He would rather have a boiler if at all possible.

Any other suggestions?

Maine Ken

Baxi Luna, Buderus GB142.

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Steve Ebels_3

Too big

Their minimum firing rates are above the maximum load of the house IIRC. I'd like to find something that modulates from 15 to 50 or 60Kbtu's.

Steamhead

Maybe a buffer tank?

if you can't find something that small, this should at least help with the short-cycling problem.....

Steve Ebels_3

Yea but

You know me........I get a little sideways about things being just right. Seems like there ought to be a bonafide, real live boilerman's BOILER made for jobs like this.

Steamhead

Burnham and Slant/Fin

both make some very small gas boilers. Burnham's 202X and Slant/Fin's S-60 or VHS-60 are fairly close to what you're looking for. If you want to do oil, you might have to resort to a buffer tank as I don't know of any that small......

leo g_13

Hey Steve

what about an electric? Something like a Thermolec, that has outdoor reset built right in. It "modulates" the elements to use just enough power for the needed temp.

Or an Allied (listed in the manufactures section to the left), with their Bitronic control. You set the time for the staging of the elements, and it also has sensors on the return side, so as the temp approaches what you have it set for, it will start to drop off elements. In the shoulder seasons, most times, only one element (1/3 of total wattage) is running, quite inexpensive to run in my area (actually, the last 10 jobs I have done, 6 have been with electric boilers, and I have 3 more coming up real soon).

Leo G

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CDM2

Small boiler

How about the Bryant (Dunkirk) BW9AAN050, condensing 90% boiler, 39mbh Net I-B-R. That is just about as close you could find for your loss.

Regards,
Dean

Weezbo

I agree.*~/:).. in a few days J.D. is comming up with his

pinner monitor and maybe i can get some more accurate information at that time...

here is something that i have done and it was suprising to say the least,i shut the flue way off anf also the electric on the boiler,had station distribution headers ran an electric Water heater avec larger elements thru thr side arm(coil) and checked the parameters every day,....

the energy consumption was lower and the cost less than the combined fueloil and electric bill for the month of Febuary in an extremely cold environment...i think the reason for this is a great portion of the heat is lost thru the stack as "parasitic"btu migration and that during burn a healthy percentage is trying to heat the state in which i live which as you know is a losing battle.. So, as soon as J.D. gives me a call that he is leaving with the boiler on the truck i will be forthcomming with everything possible as to which way Charlie on the Monitor condensing oil boiler... Viessmann has some smaller boilers that i have seen on the internet and like Mike says would be a good thing to have them available in The Good Ole U.S.ofA. *~/:) thats all i have to offer at this momment....Have you seen the Quietside oil Boiler?...

jerry scharf_3

sounds familiar

Steve,

My munchkin T50 will go 16-50 MBH and with vision1 will put out 80MBH in indirect mode. I have not found anything smaller. Mike's comments about the Vitodens 300 going down to 13MBH is promising.

My understanding of the concern is that over the wide variations of gas compositions and delivery pressures, keeping a smooth light-off, stable flame and good flame sensing becomes hard.

I think we need to continue to be vocal about the need for this with anyone who will listen. Sure, there are there ways we can fix it. Does that make it a good system...

jerry

dconnors

not too big

you can control the output of the GB142.

Paul Brockfeld_2

Weil-McLain Ultra 80

The Ultra 80 will modulate down to 16k BTU's.

Nron_13

Conematic

Try this boiler its max is 50mbh and will modulate
www.conematic.com

Weezbo

Was replying to a German ladd when my computer locked

Up again he offered to assist me in the endeavour on the Viessmann site ! I asked how we might post a few pictures to convey our Back woods Heaten variety hydronic lash ups Just got the Buderas pump block *~/:) thinking really hard now just how Good can it Look it is insulated to the T sorry , i digress.... i better post this before it locks up again. Wouldnt it be cool to post some of our work on the viessmann site? *~/:) Good ole Hot Rods hydronic bed:) all kinds of lash ups the lot of us fin kinda especially jazzy, the beautiful steamer posts,our homemade hydronic panels(Mark's angular home made lash up soon My buddy Fred is into making a Moose head hydronic rad i'm thinking there are sooo many coool things we do that it will bring out some of thier ladds rad designes, headers boier posts, mixing stations etc..... it would be a good thing

Ron Schroeder

How about 1/4gph with oil?

That's a larger heat load than my house. I heat with a Buderus G115-21 boiler that normally fires at .6gph. With a normal aquastat with a 10 degree differental on the high limit, it almost short cycles but with a 25 degree differential and reset it is fine. Anything smaller might be too small for an indirect for the DHW.

For the last two weeks I have been running a .25gph nozzle from Hago in it's Riello BF3 burner. So far so good on combustion but it is a little slow on recovery of DHW.

For these low heat load houses, when using oil, I lean toward a boiler like the Buderus with an inside out indirect like the Ergomax which gives both DHW and buffering for longer cycles. With proper controls, it is simple, reliable, clean and efficient (and a lot less expensive than condensing). Someday, there will be a two stage oil burner that will make it even better.

Ron

Wayco Wayne

I use the T50 Munchkin

Like Jerry sez you get a great throttling range at 50 down to 16 and you can go up to 80 for indirect recovery. Whats not to like. WW

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Wayco Wayne

I use the T50 Munchkin

Like Jerry sez you get a great throttling range at 50 down to 16 and you can go up to 80 for indirect recovery. Whats not to like. WW

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hr

If it is gas or LP

I would think you wiould want at least 40K for DHW production regardless of how small their hot water load is. I'd say the small Munchkin, Ultra, perhaps that new Triangle Tube unit?

I agree with the Ergomax solution. I've done 2 recently and thay can smooth out micro loads and give you very efficient DHW production.

You're dealing with what I forsee as a common problem with tight, well insulated homes. Heck, lighting, appliance and human being heat output is adequate for a lot of the heating season It really changes cooling equipment sizing also.

I think Robert Bean is looking into some calc software for ICF construction. Be interesting to see how the numbers come in for these homes.

hot rod

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