Fire suppression superfluous?

Brad White_103

Having designed several steam kitchens including retrofits, all seemed to have Ansul or Kidde suppression systems- maybe just a default reaction. Could also have been that the cooking line once had a grille or fat fryer...

Granted, every kitchen did have grilles and fryers but those were under separate hoods while the steam kettles and bain maries were under a steam hood -with suppression. I remember the discussions about leaving the caps on for the same reason as grease hoods.

As usual, you pose good questions- "Gee, we always did it that way"... but you at least ask. Never occurred to me.

What I would submit is, over time there may be a build-up of grease from butter or oil and other things tossed into steam kettles (to keep the veggies and rice from sticking), but for crying out loud, clean the hood once in a while... :)

If I get the chance, I will consult NFPA-96 which governs grease ducts, systems and all that good stuff. Even if not always accepted as "code", it is the reference standard of record.

Christian Egli_2

Steamy hot kitchens

Kitchens equipped with gas fired ranges and deep fryers need a strict minimum of fire suppression systems, the Ansul systems and such. Can't argue with the real fire danger.

But what about kitchens that are powered by high pressure steam. For instance, if your steam is at 100PSI, that's 340F, which is well below the burning point of cooking oils. Since there is no way the steam can overheat like a gas fire can, there is no risk of fire, -I think.

Is there anyone here having one such industrial steam kitchen with nothing more than the ordinary fire suppression? Thanks in advance.

Christian Egli_2

Dependable as usual

Thanks for your reply, Brad, and for thinking about this. So, it's not that I am just inhaling too much steam.

My thoughts were prompted by a kitchen that lost its steam supply and was consequently remodeled with expensive to maintain fire supression - my thinking of course is, perhaps, a new free standing steam boiler would have been easier.

Plus maintaining and optimizing one gas fire is easier than the multitude of burners, plus you can cook on oil - which is currently cheaper than gas.

Oh well, the steam griddles where interesiting to look at and according to the users, they grilled with supreme even-ness.

Brad White_9

Steam Griddles?

Wow, new one on me... The kitchens I worked on were in universities and hospitals usually, with steam to burn so to speak...

Steam jacket kettles, bread warmers (baked their own at Harvard!), bain maries and sundry double-boilers and warming tables using 40 to 60 psig steam usually...

But a grille! Wow. Wonder how she browns a burger?

Not sure of the total draw or what your Ohio boiler code says, but here in MA we are limited to under 9 BHP if the boiler is under 15 PSIG. Above that, you need a stationary boiler engineer (fireman) for all hours of operation. No mention of cooking skills in the code, alas.

I did not have time to review NFPA-96 but here is a copy of the 2001 edition (not current but close enough to give you a general idea). The term "grease" seems to be operative at brief glance. No mention of cooking methods for burgers nor the preferred condiments.

My favorite burger? Seriously: Broiled and finished after the final flip by sprinkling with curry powder and a schmear of natural peanut butter plus another 30 seconds under the broiler. Really.

Christian Egli_2

You got my day booked solid

Thanks for the very informative document. In it, I found some enlightening stuff.

Rules rules rules, it seems, a hood (and fire suppression) is needed whenever the cooking process produces smoke, greasy smoke in particular - this with no mention of the heat source.

Steam is talked about, only that it does not need to be on an automatic shut off valve actuated by the fire alarm, like all the other gas and electric appliances need to be in the whole kitchen, even if not under the hood.

Come to think of it, a careless chef smoking a cigarette while deglazing a pan with alcohol could still ignite the whole thing. Just thinking like a safety inspector, here.

The steam range consists of a 2x3 feet plate with a cavity within it. It's 3 inches thick all together, with 1/2 in thick walls. Cast steel. The cavity is slanted like the bottom of a tub. The lowest point, in the middle of one of the 2 ft side is where the horizontal hole comes out. It seemed meant to work like a one pipe radiator, on I'm guessing 125 PSI (because I know that was available). The kitchen included two of these, and like you mentioned, the standard kettle etc... All this was new at the turn of the 1900's and was modernized in the late eighties. A relative of mine worked summers in an all steam bakery as a teenager a long time ago. Steam, no other source of power for the ovens.

125 PSI should be plenty high to get things brown, it is about 350F, beyond this you're not just caramelizing and crystallizing, you're blacking and making calcined burger.

You must have a taste for Indonesian food, their sate padang seems comparable to what you're doing with your burger. My brother loves such peanut butter sauces, such as the Conimex brand pinda sauce. I shall tell him of your secret twist. My barbaric taste make me splatter mayonnaise everywhere, hot dog, burger and fries...

Brad White_9

Cheeseburgers in Paradise...

You know, Christian, I never thought of my burger as being of Thai origin, but you are right, it does have that kind of twist- Now I will enjoy them more.

Learning ever as I do here....

Wait until you try my all-meat chili recipe. No beans (AGA gives it a "zero" rating). Before finishing, the last hour, I stir in about 6-8 squares of Baker's Chocolate. Mole'!

Things we do here on The Wall.... getting hungry...

Cheers!

Brad

Christian Egli_2

Hours? it cooks in minutes with steam

But still not as fast as I can eat chocolate.

Wow, you caught me with my mouth full of chocolate. I barely started a chocolate bar earlier today, the giant one pounder Toblerone, and I've already got half of it gobbled up... Could you try an all chocolate chili for me? Chocolate is a big weakness on the paternal side of my family.

The Reeses' peanut butter cups are always good too. I am getting hungry.

Brad White_9

Eight to Twelve Hours, Christian

Twenty pounds of the orneriest, toughest meat you can find. Whole cuts, not ground beef. Cut into cubes, strips, does not matter. Just brown it first.

Tomatoes, onions cumin, garlic, a habanero for the brave, jalapenos for everyone else. Tomato paste. Oregano, a dash of olive oil. Salt, pepper and yes, the ubiquitous bay leaf.

Start by almost carbonizing the chiles, oregano cumin, onions and garlic in hot oil. Toss in browned meat (broiler for fast cooking, steam for ultra-fast I am now learning

Add tomatoes (fresh in season, canned if you must. Water with beef broth cubes. Let simmer for about four to six hours on very low heat in a Cast Iron Dutch Oven... That is Day One. Chill overnight.

Day Two: Another few hours. Stir in some red wine if you like. By this time the tomato base has broken down the meat into something palatable, looks almost like ground beef in some cuts but leave the chunks big going in.

To stop the acidity, the chocolate comes in handy to break the back of the tomato bath.

Let simmer another hour and enjoy. Cornbread and a dollop of sour cream and heaven awaits ye.

BEW

Christian Egli_2

Now I'm hungry

But I'll have to wait until supper time.

Thanks for the recipe, jalapenos scare me and habanero make me cry.

#)

Christian Egli_2

While digesting all this food

Here is a link to modern individual steam griddles - these are not connected to a remote boiler, but the steam performance is what chefs are after. It guarantees that you can't miss your steak. I'm sure it beats trying to boil the poor slab of meat in hot water.

This is a link from a company in Ft Wayne, right near me.

steam griddle

http://www.accutemp.net/griddle_intro.html


Delicious.

I'm sure this is a hot item to push into the homes with posh nosh kitchens and dreams of the commercial Vulcan ranges.

I'm making myself hungry all over again.