Steam heat questions

Jeff_69

I see from reading this site, that I should definitely insulate the mains. Where can I find a source for the pipe insulation? I am not in the house, and haven't measured them, but as I remember the main is about 3 inches across.
Thanks
Jeff

Jeff_69

Steam heat questions

We have an old two family house in central New Jersey heated by gas fired steam, that we rent out. From what I have read, I think it is what is called a one-pipe system. We have separate boilers for each apartment. I have some questions about steam heat.

When we had the boilers serviced a couple years ago (they are about 20 years old, Weil McLean), the plumber told us to drain water from the system weekly to keep it clean, reduce sludge build-up, and prolong the life of the boiler. From what I see on this site, adding water to a steam system leads to corrosion, and increases the amount of sludge. Is the weekly drainage truly a recommended maintenance item? What kind of maintenance is needed on a steam boiler, and with what frequency? What can I, or should I, do myself and what actually requires professional service?

Also, we are having a problem with the radiators in some rooms heating up, and others remaining cold. The plumber initially told me to put Gorton D air valves on all the radiators in order to vent them quickly. What happened then, was that some of the rooms, which are apparently on the ends of the line, didn’t heat before the boiler cut off. The thermostat is in a room heated by a radiator in the middle of the line. He then suggested I put a number 6 valve on that radiator, to slow it down so that room would not heat as quickly. This, apparently, solved the problem (that is, I received no more complaints from the tenant). This winter (new tenants), we are again having this problem. This time, the plumber closed the steam valve on the radiator in that room entirely. Again it appears that only the radiators closest to the boiler are heating up How do I balance the system so all the rooms get heated? Should I try putting a smaller valve on another of the radiators that heats more quickly? If so, what size?

The tenant called yesterday complaining that the apartment is not coming up to the temperature they are setting the thermostat for. In addition, their gas bill was quite high which particularly bothered them since the apartment is cold, and does not seem to heat up, even if they set the thermostat up to 75. I went to check it out, and noticed that the boiler did not stay on very long, even after I turned up the thermostat, and that the pressure gauge never budged, which I thought might be the problem. I started searching for information on steam boilers, and found this site. I saw here that the boiler cycling on and off apparently is the way it is supposed to work. Also, that with a gauge the size I have, I may never see it move. What pressure is the steam supposed to be at? Is the boiler coming on for a few minutes, shutting off, coming on again a few minutes later normal? Can you give me any suggestions?

Thanks,


Jeff

Bob W._3

The only water you should be draining would be the weekly blowdown of the low water cutoff (LWCO). Is that what you are doing?

Try a Hoffman 1A adjustable vent on that tenant radiator. On the high setting (6) it vents a little slower than the Gorton 6. You can dial it down if necessary.

I suspect your mains are not vented properly. Post the length and diameter of each main and the type of main vent on it, if any. Pictures of any existing main vent are helpful. The key is to vent the mains fast and then you can balance your system.

Finally, and most important, order a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heating from this site. Money more than well spent. Good luck.

Jeff_69

Please explain exactly what you mean by "weekly blowdown of the low water cutoff (LWCO)". I guess that is what we are doing, but am not sure we are doing it correctly.
Thanks
Jeff

soot_seeker_2

Lost Art of Steam Heating

Like my friend above says, buy the book. It's a $35 writeoff.

If you are a landlord with steam heat and you do your own work, this education is a necessity. Sizing steam vents is a topic that can't be covered in a few lines.

The boiler has to be permitted to run long enough to fill all the mains. That can be a challenge in mild weather. And the mains must be vented on the ends.

Consider using a remote thermostat sensor so the tenants can't mess with it. I use Tekmar thermostats with a remote temp. sensor that looks just like a blank outlet plate.

Long Beach Ed

Jeff_69

I agree, the book sounds like something I certainly should have and I ordered it right away. But I guess it wasn't shipped overnight express and I haven't gotten it yet. I was hoping for some information while I eagerly await its delivery.

soot_seeker_2

You may want to wait

... to insulate the mains until you have a better understanding of the system. The insulation may hide something you need to see, like the pitch or any sags of the pipes.

If you wish to continue though, just find a plumbing suppler. You need to know the inside size of the pipes and the length of insulation you need.

Avoid Home Depot and other homeowner sources. They generally only carry overpriced imported garbage.

Long Beach Ed

Bob W._3

Jeff, if your boiler(s) has a float type low water cutoff, such as a McDonnell Miller 47 or 67, there should be a ball valve on the bottom which should be opened at least weekly to drain the dirt and scale that would otherwise foul the LCWO. It is ususally done while steaming, as this "tests" the LWCO. The boiler should shut off and turn on again after the water level rises in the glass gauge.

If you have a probe type LWCO this procedure is not necessary; I'm not sure whether the manufacturer recommends draining down the boiler enough to test the probe - perhaps one of the steam guys could comment on that. You may have one of each (float and probe), depending on your local codes. Could you take a picture of the controls on each boiler and post them here?

Also, remember to post the length and diameter of your mains, and the types of main vents, if any.

Steve Paul_4

Steam heat

Jeff, if you are in Central NJ, Give us a call in Somerset,just outside of New Brunswick at Jack Dolan And Sons Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning at 732-247 2763. We do lots of steam repairs, replacements and fine tuning. Tell them Steve suggested you call.

Anna Conda

On commercial and large large residential (high rise building) boilers, its often a recommended practice to simulate a low-water situation by using the blow-down valve to lower water level in the boiler. That could be what they're thinking of, but I don't think its a standard procedure on small small residential boilers, since they usually don't have chemical treatment to protect against oxygen in the make-up.

Warren J. Mateychak

I just moved into a house with a similar problem. Most of my problems with water loss in the system and uneven heating were corrected when I installed Gorton #1s on the mains and Hoffman 1As on all of the radiators. When I took possession of the house the mains were uninsulated, half of the air vents never sealed correctly when filled with steam, and the other half were old and mismatched. Venting won't solve all of your problems but it's a key piece of the puzzle. Try Pex plumbing supply for the vents (pexsupply.com)

Warren

Dave DeFord_3

Call the folks at Gorton and be ready to fax them a description of the radiators with sizes and styles along with a piping diagram with dimensions (length and diameter)and room dimensions. I did this recently and the results were amazing. It costs about $ 20 per radiator but it was well worth the money. I believe the guy you want to talk to is Kevin but my memory is short and defective. I believe their website is gortonvalves.com. If you can't find them search this site for gorton and I'm sure you can find the contact info.

best of luck

Hitzkup

gorton website

http://www.gorton-valves.com/

mark sch