air separator necessary?

Unknown

but ..... on simple baseboard heated homes , or any type of loop heat zones , the built in air eliminator works just fine . We have literally thousands of Peerless boilers installed with the very rare callback for air problems . Matter of fact , we installed a WBV for a homeowner who did his own baseboard later on that month . We went back to install an oil tank and saw no purge on the boiler at all . But the zones were rippin' hot . The system bled itself from the built-in air elimination tapping . Of course , pumping away from the expansion tank .

mark thompson

closed loop hydronic

anybody know if i really need an air seperator? im installing a extrol pressure vessel, and an automatic vent, i just wondered if i could maybe a simple containment vessel above the extrol tank, out of copper pipe, into which i would install the auto vent.
im not sure how the air seperator works, and if i really need it. i visualized it as some kind of 4 way 'x' fitting, flow going through straight, then, the top and bottom legs would house the air vent, and extrol one up and one down vertically. yes......im too cheap to put one in, and thats the only reason!! just wondered if they are really necessary.

Steamhead (in transit)

Air separator

will work much better than any homemade concoction of fittings. Spend the extra money, you'll be glad you did.

"Steamhead"

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Unknown

What brand

boiler are you connecting to ? We find the built in air elimination tapping in boilers made with them work very well .

Brad White_73

Yes, absolutely.

Get a Microbubble resorber such as a Spirovent. All a bulge in the pipe will do is give you a bulge in the pipe. It will vent the free air that happens by but not the air in solution which is released when the water is heated. That water will remain entrained until it impinges on something and that is where the air separator comes in. I specify them on every job.

Bob Sweet

The boiler taps with a typical canister air vent are usually enough. If the system has trouble elimiminating the entrained air, a microbubbler works well. The nice thing about the microbubblers is the tapping to allow fill valve and exp. tank hook up.

J.C.A._3

Only If....

You want to get rid of the air. People far smarter AND with FAR more time to decide what works than you or I,have used it wisely to make these devices.I say spend the dough and save yourself a whole lot of wondering. Chris

Cosmo_3

Pumping away

I agree with Ron

on a circaholic job (i have done many, not judging) we have a good stream of water speed, the air bubbles for the most part end up in the boiler. Especially if care was taken to run the returns up into a return header so that the air has to go back to the boiler, or an auto air vent instead of just ending up rising into another return line that may not be running. In this instance I think that an integral boiler air eliminator, or baffle type air purger can over time remove as much air as the Micro bubble birdcage type units.

However on any single pump/zone valve system that is working on minimum flows to achieve proper delta T, or the recommended straight pipe before the baffle purger cannot be followed (usually ten pipe diameters, or sometimes 18"), or when the flow is too high in the pipe, a micro bubble resorber unit can be the shiz-ning (what ever that means).

Personally I just sell the microbubble and get over it. Taco, and Spiro vent makes nice ones, and not too much more compared to the cost of the job.


Cosmo Valavanis

hr

Gosh, a cast iron air scoop

can be purchased for less than 30 bucks. Why would you even try to breed you own for that kind of $$?

hot rod

phil rogers

same

its not going on a boiler system, but a solar loop. and to save any more replies, ill bust out the wallet (again) and buy one.

Brad White_73

Sorry Roger

Hope we did not beat you up too badly...

I think on a solar loop especially if higher temperatures, you will be even more glad that you did get one. Cannot fault you for trying.

Solarstar

I might get a good spiro for my solar loop since it seems to generate too much air over time that I need to quick purge to remove it .

Ron Schroeder

Solar hot water often needs 2 places to remove air since the flows are often so low. Usually an air vent at the high point and an air seperator just before the circ takes care of everything.

J.C.A._3

A hint from the old days....

Spend a few more bucks for 1/8th or 1/4 inch shut offs for just below any installed air vents. The time saved will pay for itself in spades when (Notice:I didn't say IF!!!)the float valves fail.

Glycol is wonderful stuff, but really does some funny things when overheated. Chris

hr

I think the piping has a lot to do with

the air removal. I have two different solar systems at my home and shop. Neither have air purgers. BUT, in both cases the piping runs straight up to the roof, follows the rafter at a 30 pitch then into the panel. I used the Curvo to form all the ells and 45's.

In both cases I have merely installed a good quality (B&G high flow) fairly expensive, brass air vents at the top connection to the panel.

I used a 1/2 hp transfer pump to fill and power purge. It did burp somewhere along the line at the air veant as noted by the blue glycol stain.

I would say long runs with possibly some ups and downs, multiple, tight fittings, horizontal runs, etc would be a tougher purge without some sort of scoop or microbubble resorber

I am flowing them pretty hard, as always the faster the flow the more btu's transfered. Just stay below that velocity number of 4 fps.

So my answer to the question "is an air scoop or spirovent required", once again.... it depends. It's fairly simple to add one later if plan A doesn't work.

hot rod

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Greg_35

Ditto that! Very good advice.