aqua pex in a heating system

[Deleted User]

Meant to say De-ionized water, which wouldn't be de-ionized for long once instilled into a metal piped system...But it sure starts out clean.

So MANY waters, so little time...

Thanks for the catch.

Errant human bean at large:-)

ME

Dom_2

aqua pex in a heating system

We have a customer who is the third owner of his home. When the house was built the heating contractor used water pex as opposed to heat pex, so there is no oxygen barrier. Because of this a sort of granular matter develops in the pex and eventually blocks the line and is has to be cleared, by the way, it is only half inch tubing and replacing it is not an option. The system is anti-freezed and has been flushed twice with T.S.P. The question is, is there a way to clear up or stop this granular matter from forming, once and for all???

[Deleted User]

Granular matter....

Sounds to me like you need to contact George at Rhomar Water. www.rhomarwater.com. What you describe is NOT a normal consideration. Could be contaminents coming from the mix/potable water. May need to substitue bottled or R.O. water for the mixed/pumped solution.

Also, make sure you have lots of lables on that system explaining that it REQUIRES water treatment. Does not sound like they went the non ferrous route to protect equipment...

ME

Unknown

be careful

Be careful of RO water into system with any metal, RO will attacks almost anything that's not ploy...

Dom_2

I should have specified, the aqua pex is being used to connect from the copper header off the boiler to several zones of baseboard, I was thinking of using a boiler inhibitor but I am not sure if you can use it with anti-freeze. This is in a residence with no water treatment and using well water.

Marty_9

MY GUESS.....THE CAST IRON PUMPS,OR OTHER COMONENTS,ARE RUSTING...SHOULDA USED STAINLESS STEEL PUMPS.
MARTY

Constantin

My guess...

... the pumps and any other corrodible item(s) in the system are rusting. The HX in the boiler is probably looking a bit slimmer these days than it did when it was installed.

To stop the granular stuff from accumulating, simply switch out the pumps for bronze models and isolate the heating system from the boiler with a HX if the boiler interior is not stainless. Anything ferrous has to go or it will be eaten alive over time. The hotter the water, the faster the reaction.

I would also ensure that the system does not feature a leak somewhere as that too can lead to stuff accumulating. However, considering that there still was antifreeze in the system, I'd like to think that leaks are not the problem.

Unknown

Sounds like a few things are going on in there.

Corrosion from oxygen diffusion for sure. Possibly hard and/or pH imbalanced water from the well could snowball the problem causing the "granular" condition you describe. If hard water is combined with anti-freez, it'll be taking out the inhibitor package (if used) rather quickly and begin eating up the metal components in your system.

I sugest you isolate the non barrier tubing with a heat exchanger. Hot clean the system with a good hydronic cleaner such as Rhomar 9100. Flush and fill with Purified water using a carbon & DI mixed bed resin filter. Mix purified water/antifreez mixture with a good hydronic conditioner such as Rhomar 922 and inject into system. No more problems:-)

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Dom_2

Gary, your information is very helpful, THANK YOU!!! A little more about the system here, the more I posts I read the more important the information I left out becomes, so here's some more. The system is 15 years old, the heart of the system is a Burnham RS 111, the zones with the aqua pex were isolated last year with a heat exchanger and a bronze circulating pump was added. I just spoke with the tech who did the job, and we are wondering if what we are getting is residual or if the inhibitor is eating away the copper in the header and the baseboard. Regardless I am going to bring your recommendations and those of the others who have posted here to the owner of the company I work for and to the service manager. Thank you all this is a problem that we are trying to put to rest!!!

EdyLogicMstr.

Dom,

Check out Drew's attachments on the thread below.

Recent Water Quality Post

If you do in fact have system isolation the stuff is probably due to hard water. As Mark suggested you should contact George or Dwight at Rhomar Water.

Rhomar Water


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EdyLogicMstr.

Dom,

Check out Drew's documents contained in the recent Wall thread below. That's some good information!

Recent Water Quality Post

If you do in fact have system isolation the stuff is probably due to hard water. As Mark suggested you should contact George or Dwight at Rhomar Water. They have the best products to handle this type of thing (IMHO) and they deal with these kind of problems every day.

Rhomar Water


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hr

You need to determine exactly

what the grandular material IS before you can properly treat it. It could be from the blend water used, could be deposits that were not flushed properly the first time. Could be the antifreeze has gone bad (acidic) and is attacking the less nobel components, or other things.

I'd start with a ph test. This will give you insight to the glycol condition.

TSP, if in fact you used the good stuff, is a basic strong soap. I'd rather you use a hydronic specfic cleaner. It leaves the piping in better condition for the use of glycols, etc, as it has some of the inhibitors built into it for ph adjusting, O2 scavangers, and film providers. TSP does not have these important ingrediants.

Do you have a Y strainer in the system? A fill system on the glycol side?

hot rod

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EdyLogicMstr.

Agreed



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EdyLogicMstr.

HR,

When do you specify Y-strainers. I like the idea but,,, when & why? Residential?

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hr

All boiler installs

If for no other reason as just a start up devise. I even bought an assortment of press type Y strainers.

They will catch those errant, rouge copper chips and solder balls that eventually make their way to your integral check valve circ pumps Then you have ghost flow issues. or worse.

It also keeps debris out of those small passage mod con boilers. A Y strainer is a very inexpensive devise that can save expensive, and problematic call backs.

For years I used the Jomar filter ball valves. They have a strainer built into the ball of the valve. The strainer was way to small and even over fluxing would slime them closed. Great concept, possibly better for compressed air applications or something.

Heatway used them for a while on their Hydro Control panels. A real common cause of with under heating problems. Remove and discard the ball valve strainer cup if you ever come across one!

hot rod

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Dom_2

The boss had me return to the house today to replace the 007 bronze circulator with a 008 with the thought that a larger circulator would move the deposits through the pipe instead of clogging the pipe. I'm thinking this is just a band-aid of sorts, really liking the idea of treating the water. On the upside of this after changing the circ out I had to purge the zones, so there is no more glycol in the system except for maybe in trace amounts. I still think a good hydronic cleaner is a good idea. I did find that the well water is being treated through a softening system. I'm going to bring all these posts to the attention of my big boss and hopefully get the go ahead to do further work on this problem.

Unknown

Changing the pump curve won't do anything.

Tell your boss that he's wasting his time. Hope you saved a water/glycol sample so you can have it tested so you can solve this problem "once and for all."

Does this system really need glycol? I only use it when we absolutely must. That stuff is no good for anything other than it's ability to resist freezing. The horrible "green disease" that grows out of the seals really looks ugly and it turns acidic after a while. It's nearly impossible to contain that slimy stuff for long.

Talk to George. It's a free call.

HR, Who makes press wye strainers?


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Unknown

If the system is open to oxygen diffusion (aquapex) and runs at a high temperature, the glycol might not have been any good anyway; the corrosion inhibitors break down faster in such circumstances I believe. Has the PH level been checked? the water very well might have been extremely acidic... or base.. I forget which.. if the inhibitors broke down.

This isn't gospel, but I believe that could very well be a contributing factor to the problem at least.