Contractor Predators

JK_3

There are all kinds of people in all kinds of places.Over the years I have learned that some techs have a way with people an some have to be kept on commercial or new construction work. Dealing with the home owners is always more involved because they tend to get emmotional to some degree but you can't convince a contactor that there is a better way to heat a home unless that "better" equals less money. I think as keith stated you have to develop a sixth sense about these customers at the same time that you develop the sense of knowing which ones are only looking for the lowest price. As an after thought I always say "I knew this one was going to be a problem" but if I knew then why did I take the job.

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mp1969

Contractor predators

It only happens once every five or six years however "Contractor Predators" are out there and they seem to devise more devious schemes as time goes on.

Here is the situation: working with general contractor on medium size residential bath update and addition of adjacent new master bath. All goes well until the end of the project when the plumbing inspector wanted the water distribution system upgraded to accomodate additional water demands.

We submit a quote for this portion and reluctantly the homeowner agrees to the added exspense of a repipe.Work is completed while owner is out of town on spring vacation.

Owner returns and makes a claim that the basement was left in shambles to the general contractor. I re-visit the site and only find a hand print left on a piece of linen and some marks on a hard surface (yet painted) utility room floor. I clean up the black ladder marks on the floor and tell the owner we will replace the damaged linen.

After the past weekend the owner(s) decide that this is not good enough and demand that the entire basement floor be repainted. Without consulting us first the GC does this work with the intent of back charging us.

This is a classic case of a customer who believes they have been given a blank check. They complain ,nit pick and find whatever they can to get additional work done for free. A very sophisticated scheme to steal goods and services.

We are a very reputable and quality conscience firm who does work in the affluent part of the metro Milwaukee area with great success. Like I told my boss I would guess that this couple is one out of about 500 that use these tactics with the idea of getting something(s) for free.

The general contractor has tried to do everything right (as we have) yet this customer continues to beat us up.This will probaly go through the lien process and make legal firms wealthy while both the GC and us wait for final payment.

Thus the label "Contractor Predator" if you are in business long enough you will run into these customers who
make mountains out of mole hills to their advantage!

Any similar incidents, the younger contractors may learn from this (and quite frankly "Misery Loves Company")

Thanks in Advance!

Rich K.

gerry gill

i've wondered sometimes

that if angies list can rate contractors, then there should be a list to rate consumers..be poetic justice if they couldn't get a plumber/hydronician in the future to come to their house..

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Mark Hunt

Here's one


Several years ago I was working on a remodel where the customer was getting a new boiler and a new zone of HWBB added to the basement. Upstairs an attic A/C system was being installed by another mechanic from the company I worked for.

When the A/C system was completed, the mechanic asked me to do a walk through with him to make sure everything looked good. It did.

The next morning the salesman for this job says that the HO called and said that there was a hole in his ceiling. "Probably just a nail-pop" the salesman sez and tells me to bring a bit of taping compound. Off I go.

I get to the job and what do I find? An entire 4'x8' piece of sheet rock hanging in two halves from the ceiling in the living room! My little can of DAP wasn't going to touch this! I called the salesman and told him what I found. "We did not do this!", I said, "the customer fell through his own ceiling while trying to check on the work done in the attic."

The salesman gets a taper over there and he repairs the gaping hole. Slaps a coat of compound on it and leaves saying he will be back. Customer shows up and says A) we did it and he wants the entire ceiling replaced. I tell him that we did NOT make that hole and the he was NOT getting a new ceiling. We go back and forth a bit and then he hits me with "My religion forbids me from lying". That was it. I went completely ballistic. They storm out, I go back to finish the boiler.

Not 15 minutes later the lady of the house asks me to come upstairs. Up I go. She leads me to a room that used to be a bedroom but had been turned into an office during the remodel. She points to some old BsBd on the wall that the covers were falling off of. "You will fix these", she says, "It will only take you a few moments". DING DING!!! ROUND TWO!! After complimenting her on the size of her "male attributes", I told her to call the office for a quote to "fix these". (We had NOTHING to do with this portion of the job)

Anyway, as I am picking up my tools the salesman shows up again. He borrows a screw driver and disappears into the house. He re-appears carrying a hand rail. "Customer said we scratched it", he says and he takes it to have it re-finished. There were NO scratches on it.

Job complete, I leave. This is one customer I will NOT forget.

One year later.........salesman calls me to his office and asks if I could go look at a small baseboard job for him. "Just adding more baseboard to a zone" he says, "customer said we did work for him before". "What is the customers name?", I ask and he tells me. YOU GUESSED IT!!! SAME GUY!!! He wanted baseboard run into the laundry room. "He must need a new washer and dryer", I told the salesman and had to remind him just who this guy was.
He gave the guy a quote SO HIGH that the customer called to complain. When the sales manager heard the story, he told the customer to take it or leave it. He left it.

Luckily, customers like this are rare. If they weren't, no-one would do any type of service work ever.

Mark H

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Rich_18

?

Unbelieveable ! Yet believeable *%#%

keith

6th sense

After a while you develop a 6th sense about who is going to pull this "stuff" on you. When you sense it, trust it and cut your losses.

A couple years ago I replaced a buried 10,000 oil tank for an apartment building. The property manager worked for a company I had delt with many times before at a seperate facility. But never for this 1 particular shrewdy. He claimed that we damaged a portion of his parking lot during construction. He was correct, I was responcible to repair it. No problem I say I'll take care of it. He offers up his asphalt company, they do great work and are resonable. OK makes sense. Problem is that his interpriatation of the extent of MY damage was different than mine. He authorizes them to cut out a section twice as large as I agreed to. No problem you authorized you pay them is my position. No problem I'll deduct it from your contract. That is unless you have pictures taken prior to work commencing. Thats what it comes down to sometimes when you deal with these predetors.

When I negotiated the contract with this snake I knew something wasn't right but I didn't trust my instinct.

Trust yourself,

Keith

Robert O'Brien

I refuse

to work with any builders or GC's period.If I can't deal with the H.O. directly I'm not interested in the job.

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mp1969

Excellent replies!

Thanks guys I am starting to get over this but the damn thing just does not go away. Today they said the faucet spout was a little longer than they like and it seems to drip a little.

It is a wall mount Kohler "Purist" faucet that their designer picked out and it retains water in the flow restricted spout for about 45 seconds.

These are professional people and I suspect that she is an attorney. I am to the point of laughter because of their blatant actions. Usually this behavior is recognized, however in larger cities this can be repeated time and time again.

My wheels are turning and I will find a way to exspose these characters. Love the idea about a reverse Angie's list.

Any name suggestions ? "Wolves in Sheep Clothing" ?

Thanks guys!

Brad White_71

The only name for them that comes to mind...

Well, the use of the term applied to such people insults a necessary orifice.

So let's not and say we did!

Leo

Sly

People like this think they are so smooth. Call it what you will but a thief is a thief no matter how it's wrapped.

Leo

Unknown

This content has been removed.

clammy

how do you do that ?

I'm just wondering how you deal with HO instead of the GC's .It always seems to me the GC"s don't even want you to talk to the HO and if there's GC"s there they want no omne talkin to the HO ,Lately i have been finding it more and more impossible to deal with either one i can't figure out which ones cheaper or stupid it really hard .Just looked at one HO is the GC he wants a unico except has no clue on a price he says he's only willing to spend about 10 to 12 on the a/c mimuin 5 ton i stated for that money there not a thing i can do except leave same for the heat not a clue wants radiant but his budget is not even enough for baseboard ,big addition in all direction and i think there going to live there will construction goes on i think i'm losing it .Asked if he had a heat lose /gain survey and he stated for what also print is dated for boca codes and enjery complaince for 2000 pretty funny peace and good luck clammy

Mitch_6

Contractors as contractor predators.

In reply to clammy, I have had numerous cold calls by contractors. After they slip under my pre qual radar I go out and find a project already underway.

I ask how did you start the job without a number from a plumber/heating company.

What I find is they put in an unrealistic number then try to find a company to work within that number or they beat them down after the job starts. Usually when I see a sight underway I pretend to be interested to be polite then file my job notes at the end of the driveway.

I had one case with a contractor I worked with before that I gave a number to he accepted it, I did the job (actually went longer than I expected). The G.C. came back to me saying that he thought the job would have gone for less and actually carried less than my estimate.

I told him too bad he got my number in writing just because he wanted to low ball was not my problem. It did take for ever for me to get paid, of course I no longer work for this G.C.

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Unknown

right now..

Back in '99, I was hired by the outstanding plumbing company to install the radinat floor heat in garage and basement, while all others spaces are heated by sorched air. I showed up after gettin the call that they were ready for my installation, to my dismay,there's not one sheet of insulation for floor heat anywhere... I asked the GC about it and told me that as its not required in the codes book and won't install it, told him about the heat loss, heating costs, blah,blah... His reply was," what u care? You are not living here!" I "stepped" on his toes and went straight to the owner that didn't have a clue what was going on... Make the long story short, the builder lost his lawsuits by the owner with 6 differnt sub contractors on owner's side... Right now I'm back doing more and revamped work at the same home while the builder is still in business building for others under differrent name and destroying the interigty of the hard working contractors...

[Deleted User]

Ya mean...

Stinkin' ear holes right? I thought so.

Although very tempting, I'd be careful about coming up with a web site that extolls the virtues of stinking ear holes.

Too many lawyers standing around with nothing to do but initiate a law suit for slander or libelous things...

You make MENTAL notes of people like this and AVOID them in the future. That, or walk away and cut your losses and write the balance off to experience. In other words, FIRE the stinkin' ear holes. You'll feel MUCH better for it.

I fired a GC yesterday that demanded that we estimate the system HIS way first, and OUR way second. No thanks, I've been doing what I do for 1/3 of a century. I don't need any help designing my systems, and I certainly don't need any "practice" bidding work. We're now dealing direct with the H.O. The last thing I need to do is impress a GC from 4 counties away...

ME

Steamhead (in transit)

The worst one we've had

wasn't as bad as some others in this thread..... guy hired us to place a hot-water heat system in service in a house that had been vacant for a while, "whatever it takes", he said. OK. We found a bad boiler gauge and a gas leak from a joint that wasn't made up properly, a bad fill valve, no backflow preventer and a couple of radiators that had been removed for painting and not reconnected properly. Took us all day but he had heat that evening, in one of the few cold snaps this past winter- 20 degrees and dropping fast. Called him with the good news, he gave me his fax number and said fax him the invoice. The fax appeared to go thru OK.

Two months and a bunch of attempts to reach him later, we still hadn't been paid. So I found out where he lived and banged on his door. The look on his face when he opened the door was priceless. We got our money.

I found out later that he owes almost everyone he's involved with. Well, real-estate records in Maryland are publicly accessible to anyone with Internet access......



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leo g_13

David,

your dog pen??????

My God that is THE funniest thing that i have ever heard!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leo G

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clammy

Thanks Mitch

I was and am thinking that i may not be able to handle how hard it is to sell jobs ,i'm not talking about the designing or the install part that i can handle it's the just plan penny pinching and and dealing with what seems like everybody wanting a free piece of money for doing nothing and then when it's all done cheap like they want your the idiot who has to deal with the service and complaints while the GC is long gone .I have tryed to deal direct with HO but most in my area are way to involved with the granite counter tops ,paver drive ways and all the non essitial stuff that,s what there neighbors don,t see don,t matter .And while trying to explain stuff to either one is completely useless .I recently talked to a HO about what his heating and cooling budget was and he looked at me like i was nuts he did not have a clue when i gave him a ball park on my basic install price well he nearly croaked .I will mail him a estimate but i already know that i will never hear from him onm either the a/c or the heating .It's been very hard on the residental and non the less commerical to ,they don,t want to pay for engeenering services so the call pse&g for a free design and what not ,i am really at a lost i truely cannot take the tire kickers one bit more i wasted 3/4 tank of gas just yesterday for absoulte nothing .peace and good luck with my one foot on a banana peel clammy

chuck shaw_8

I had one

who flat out told me he was not going to pay the final third of a contract job. Of course, this was not until after I had gotten the final inspection. I had been on my own less than 6 months when I met this guy, and was glad to get the work. I really didn't loose any money, but any profit was shot. That was in 1995, he must still live in the house, as I did put a lien on.

I learned from that one, and had a lawyer write up a contract, that I could change to fit each job. About 5 years later, I looked at a hot air to radiant conversion. I had a feeling about this guy, but sent the contract anyway. He returned the contract with changes. Telling me that 5 days was too soon to expect payment, and that 18% was too much to charge for interest. You should have seen his face when I told him it didn't matter if I charged 500% interest if planned on paying on time. Needless to say, I did no work for him.

Chuck

gerry gill

i've learned alot from this thread..

thanks..

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Mad Dog_2

The Paucity of True Ladies and Gentlemen

is very prevalent in today's society. There are VERY few folks that honor their word...on both sides of the aisle. Contracts are a very good thing because you cannot trust most people on a handshake any longer. However, with our regular customers, we rarely write up a contract. The handshake is still honored. Mad Dog

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Aqueous_2

Predators

> is very prevalent in today's society. There are

> VERY few folks that honor their word...on both

> sides of the aisle. Contracts are a very good

> thing because you cannot trust most people on a

> handshake any longer. However, with our regular

> customers, we rarely write up a contract. The

> handshake is still honored. Mad Dog

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 210&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Aqueous_2

Predators

Keep posting guys, If I was MP I would bundle up these replies and send them to all the contractors in his market.I might even suggest sending a copy to the HO as food for thought.



Aqueous

Kniggit

Old customers can bite too

We have been bitten by customers that are decades old. Even Freinds of the family, and people my father went to grade school with. I say contracts for all.

Mitch_6

Contracts

are almost usless if they intend to screw you.

I have had several occasions that I had a signed contract and deposit check.

I started the job and as I billed the second phase the deposit check came back bad. Took the G.C. to court found the Sheriff new him well and no one was getting paid.

Hand shake or Contract makes no difference it is the individual that matters.

I have had several occasions of people needing unexpected but expensive repairs and they take there time paying that I understand. But the individual doing an upgrade or the G.C. in financial trouble that never expects to pay is another.

Mitch S.

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thfurnitureguy_4

Preditory consumers

We get the same thing in the furniture world. We call them preditory consumers

Rich W

Thieves


When people don't make their car payment, the car just disappears in the night. Then they are charged for storage of what was left in the car or they just lose it. Maybe ACCA or somebody could push for a similar law for us. I'm thinking more along the lines of driving by the offender's house with a remote control to activate the "dead-beat mode". Something like 50deg. for heating and 85deg. for cooling. This mode would by-pass the thermostat and use some type of remote or on-board sensor. I know there are a lot of issues to deal with here. However, the car issue was a big deal- but the law was passed. Our nat.gas supplier has the ability to turn off the gas by remote control on inside meters. They just can't turn it off during the coldest times of the year. If NBC ran stories showing this all too common practice of customers stealing from us, maybe customers would not think we're all getting rich by ripping off poor customers......my 2 1/2 cents

PS. I'm ready to start building when the law is passed.