Energy Problems

allenh

One way to help reduce energy consumption would be to eliminate depreciation of 27.5 years for anything that reduced fossil fuel usage. If say 40 percent of housing is rentals that would could amount to a lot of people changing older inefficient boilers, water heaters, and adding insulation. And elimiate the 7 year depreciation on appliances while at it.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I noticed that a "White House Economist" predicts only a slight ripple in the economy as a result of the hurricane as long as energy disruptions remain short-term.

He must be related to the "intelligence" geniuses who implied that troops would find WMDs under every rock in Iraq and also claimed that factions who have been dueling for centuries would magically create a "free and Democratic Iraq" in a short time and with little violence directed either at us or against one another. How's that for a run-on-sentence? At least it has direction...

Jon Gerstad

If you've got a strong stomach...

Check out DOE's webite for some propagana figures. They either live on the moon, of don't mind looking like fools.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

WE MUST CONSERVE! NOW!!!

If we want to avoid impending economic disaster we MUST change our lifestyles. No joy rides. Reduce, combine and plan shopping trips. Share rides. Be less generous with the thermostat. Drive the smallest vehicle you own. Make better use of public transportation. Let the kids ride the bus (or heaven forbid walk) to school. Think twice before you toss the keys to your teenager and don't give them free access to the gas card. Get out of the car instead of idling through drive thrus. Don't drive way out to Wal-Mart just to save a dime. Forget your electric treadmill--get out and WALK in the fresh air.

None of this is particularly difficult. We ALL know we should be doing it yet we've become lax and sometimes lazy. While I'm not holding my breath, perhaps some lessons will be learned and simple things like this may become permanent!

Ron Schroeder_3

your prescription is just what the Dr ordered

I could not have said it better myself.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Thank you Fred.

Am troubled when our leader continually reminds us that we are "at war" but says that we should "go on with our lives as normal". War without sacrifice by all citizens could be described as a vendetta.

Am troubled when our leader stresses that our lifestyle is "non-negotiable" when that lifestyle has, at least in some small part, contributed to our problems.

A true leader never insulates himself from things he does not want to hear. A wise leader is not afraid to acknowledge imperfection--either his own or in those he leads.

Ron Schroeder_3

now is the time to pray

not just for the people on Louisiana but for our leaders. The latter certainly lack the wisdom (not I did not say intelligence) so necessary in these times.

In his defense, you President is trying to allay the rising panic in his people. I think urban America doesn't have the stomache for the truth.

In order to forestall wholesale dissent Mr Bush has to speak soft calming words. Perhaps he is trying to convinve himself ?

Leo

People have to work but if everyone didn't drive on a Sunday it would creat such a gas back log that the oil companies would take notice. They raise the prices and we keep driving. Just a hint of the hurricane and the price goes up. Oh the demand is so high the price goes up. Gee in most industries when the demand is there the price goes down.

Leo

Mike T., Swampeast MO

My Prayers Were Not Answered

Call me an optimist but I have more faith in people than to believe that they cannot deal with reality.

The most certain way to gain unity is to fight a common cause. This situation and the war itself should demonstrate that the common cause is to develop and utilize alternatives to the most readily available forms of crude oil.

In the current short-term, DELIBERATE reduction in demand is REQUIRED! Unless everyone is lying to produce profits, our margin between consumption and production of gasoline (in particular) is as thin as the profits of pumping it. While alternative may diminish the power of oil companies, they or someone else will continue to profit quite nicely. What we really stand to loose is our dependence upon people who hate us.

hvac64

I hate to say it , but this energy crisis could be what this country needs to get our heads out of are "you know whats", and start seriusly working on alternative fuels.

Let face it, if gas were $1.00 a gallon, we wouldn't be having this conv. We'de just go through our big fat lives like it couldnt get any better.

Hey, we put a man on the moon 35 yrs. ago,(BTW, can we please stop spending billions/trillions? of tax dollars to shoot satellites into space so we can take pictures of freakin Uranus) we can ( and it should be our #1,#2 and #3 priorities ) find our way out of this mess. But it should start now, not tommorrow.

Steamhead

\"But it should start now, not tomorrow.\"

It did start in the 1970s after the first energy crisis, giving us the flame-retention burner, the stack damper and other goodies. But when Reagan got in, he and his cronies de-funded alternative energy research under the guise of "letting the market decide" which translates to "don't screw up the oil companies' profit margins". We are seeing the effect of this shortsightedness now.

It gets better. This month's Consumer Reports goes into a lot of detail about how Congress won't let the EPA revise its testing procedures to make its mileage ratings more accurate. In some cases these ratings are 90% higher than what a vehicle actually gets. There have even been cases where automakers have submitted vehicles for testing that aren't even close to the production versions, in order to get a higher EPA mileage rating.

This discrepancy allows automakers to avoid CAFE penalties and maintains the oil companies' revenue streams. Guess where a lot of their campaign contributions come from?

And we thought AFUE was bogus......

Constantin

Allow me to be more optimisitic than some...

I presume that someone will hold the president and some other people responsible for cutting back the federal funding for flooding control in New Orleans by 80% from what the city requested. In real dollars total funding since 2001 was reduced by 44%. FEMA had warned since 2001 that such a event was likely to happen... Meanwhile, the mangroves and other swamps protecting the coastline from surf damage had been declared free game...

But I am an optimist. I hope that this event will wake people up to the reality that low energy prices are not a permanent fixture in our lives. Given the huge improvement potential in the US, this is a great opportunity to re-assess our energy "needs", the efficiency that we use the energy with, and general policy.

THP_6

What a gas!

If people would just think. You want dirty cheap gas prices? If everyone would just stay at home with the family for a day. I mean everyone. This whole gas thing would be over.

Unknown

we don't have leaders, here in america. We elect managers and administrators these days, not leaders. I haven't seen a "leader" with anything I would call leadership qualities in my lifetime. Thank you, two-party system!

Unknown

not when SUPPLY doesn't go up with demand, it doesn't. The economic law is supply AND demand, not just demand. This stuff doesn't just magically pour itself into tankers ready to go.

Unknown

I agree constantin, but I think waiting until now to "wake up" is like waiting until you're surrounded in a dark alley to start learning kung-fu. nothing we can do at this point is going to make the next few years a walk in the park.

If ONE disruption in our energy system can cause this.. imagine if we don't hold out perfect luck everywhere else. Venezuala decides not to sell to us. oil fields attacked, pipelines destroyed, tankers sunk.. anything at all could send the whole system from sketchy to completely inadequate.

This has been our achille's heel for quite some time now. And now we can see exactly how vulnerable we are, far too late to confidently address it. We have to try, but we also have to hope real hard that nothing else major will pop up while we are playing catch-up.

allenh

and for that reason the Republocrats will not allow other parties in debates. Its all about control. Sometimes I think that parties should not be allowed to get the best minds in office.

Here in the Northeast when winter heating bills hit its certainly going to make more people aware of boiler efficiency. I hope that depreciation is eliminated when replacing things that get better fossil fuel efficiency.

allenh

I read somewhere that the average household uses twice the fossil fuel of all the family's cars combined. If we could get away from gas and oil for heating that would be a big help. (For you youngsters the oil and gas crisis we had over 20 years ago was when we started burning more fuel that we could get out of Texas.)

Whether its solar, or geo thermal, the key is heating and cooling without gas or oil. This article sums it up. We are going to reach a day when every drop of oil pumped from underground is spoken for. Factoring in India and China who want to be like us - and the need for oil continues to grow. http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

We all know that electric boilers exist. If the electricity were produced without fossil fuel that would be a winner.

Here in Mass there is talk of windpower off in the ocean. When the electricity goes up for "fuel charges" its going to be another cost for all or us.

Matt_32

burn corn!

allenh

Burn corn.? And how much does it cost to make it burnable like oil or gas?

We could be headed to steam engines. I see that the Germans have a car that is a small diesel getting something like 70 or 80 mpg. It has a turbo for acceleration. Its a prototype.

And that Honda boiler that produces electricity is interesting. SOmething like 1 kw when running. Although its not enough to run a house it will suppliment the electricity.

Tundra

Yes, we need to develop other energy sources. Yes, we need to use less energy. But those of us here, as a group, can have more of an effect on energy use than any other group out there. How many companies out there still install the single pass boiler with a side arm. If we don't sell the cold start boilers, if we don't tune our customers boilers with instruments, if we don't do all the other tricks that we know to conserve energy, then where does it start. Yes I would like a fancy pair of boots or some other freebee. I feel a duty to my customer, myself, and as hokey as it may sound to my country, to install the most efficient equipment that I can obtain. Oh my, this soap box is very high isn't it. I had better get down before I fall down.

Ron Schroeder_3

unanswered prayer...

Mr. Mike, I forgot to ask you who to pray to.

Unknown

heck, pick one. how about kali? she's been pretty busy around here lately it seems.

Ron Schroeder_3

any other

less malevolent offerings?

JeffD

I agree that everyone should go out and buy all new high effieciency appliances, heating systems, and make major insulation improvements. There is only one problem with this thinking, not everyone can afford the initial outlay. Both me and my wife are fortunate and make a decent living. However recent runups in energy costs have just about eaten up our disposable income. We have to put money into savings just to try and heat our home this winter. Last year we did have a new efficient boiler put in and it certainly has helped. Any savings that I was getting is now gone due to much higher fuel costs. I would love to have the house insulated more, problem is I would have to use my heating oil fund to pay for it. We do not live the high life, both me and my wife commute to work together to save gas, we already turn the thermostat way down when we are not there and keep it as low as we can when we are there. Problem is you can't keep the house to cold with an infant. I recently saw where some oil dealers will now give you a loan to so you can buy heating oil, with interest of course. Another year or two of the high energy cost increases and we will have to start looking to live elsewhere as we just won't be able to afford it. Sorry guys just needed to rant on the subject, there I feel better now:-)

Bill Nye_2

Jeff

> I agree that everyone should go out and buy all

> new high effieciency appliances, heating systems,

> and make major insulation improvements. There is

> only one problem with this thinking, not everyone

> can afford the initial outlay. Both me and my

> wife are fortunate and make a decent living.

> However recent runups in energy costs have just

> about eaten up our disposable income. We have to

> put money into savings just to try and heat our

> home this winter. Last year we did have a new

> efficient boiler put in and it certainly has

> helped. Any savings that I was getting is now

> gone due to much higher fuel costs. I would love

> to have the house insulated more, problem is I

> would have to use my heating oil fund to pay for

> it. We do not live the high life, both me and my

> wife commute to work together to save gas, we

> already turn the thermostat way down when we are

> not there and keep it as low as we can when we

> are there. Problem is you can't keep the house to

> cold with an infant. I recently saw where some

> oil dealers will now give you a loan to so you

> can buy heating oil, with interest of course.

> Another year or two of the high energy cost

> increases and we will have to start looking to

> live elsewhere as we just won't be able to afford

> it. Sorry guys just needed to rant on the

> subject, there I feel better now:-)





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Bill Nye_2

Jeff

> I agree that everyone should go out and buy all

> new high effieciency appliances, heating systems,

> and make major insulation improvements. There is

> only one problem with this thinking, not everyone

> can afford the initial outlay. Both me and my

> wife are fortunate and make a decent living.

> However recent runups in energy costs have just

> about eaten up our disposable income. We have to

> put money into savings just to try and heat our

> home this winter. Last year we did have a new

> efficient boiler put in and it certainly has

> helped. Any savings that I was getting is now

> gone due to much higher fuel costs. I would love

> to have the house insulated more, problem is I

> would have to use my heating oil fund to pay for

> it. We do not live the high life, both me and my

> wife commute to work together to save gas, we

> already turn the thermostat way down when we are

> not there and keep it as low as we can when we

> are there. Problem is you can't keep the house to

> cold with an infant. I recently saw where some

> oil dealers will now give you a loan to so you

> can buy heating oil, with interest of course.

> Another year or two of the high energy cost

> increases and we will have to start looking to

> live elsewhere as we just won't be able to afford

> it. Sorry guys just needed to rant on the

> subject, there I feel better now:-)





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Bill Nye_2

Jeff

I hear what your saying, but... If you spend the money on the upgrades and the insulation it is like money in the bank. All you can do is save money from now on.

You said your savings were gone from the new equipment, but how much more would you be spending?

I see it every day, 40 - 50 yr old equipment, little or no insulation. I can't afford it, I need money for fuel. You will burn way less fuel.

I bought an old house, doubled the square footage, and my fuel consumption is 1/2 of what the previous owner spent. Maybe less than half , and the comfort level is w/o compromise.

I do not feel guilty for keeping my house 69-70° when I know I've done everything I could to conserve. This year with $2.50 gallon oil I will most likely reduce my level of comfort. I know I won't have to purchase fuel until February, who knows what it will cost then? Why not tighten up and save every drop?

Short term? The oil or gas man is going to take your money no matter what, I choose to give him as little as possible. You choose where the money goes, in your wallet or up the chimney. better equipment, tighter windows, better systems are a good investment. It wiil pay you back over the life of your home. Many of my customers are in the same house 30+ years with the original equipment, "I can't afford to fix it" they say. Oh yes you can! You wasted 20% of your heating bill for the last 30 yrs! This would be a good year to upgrade.

Jeff, this is not personal, it is not aimed at you, I just needed a soap box.

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allenh

to JeffD

And IF this govt wanted us to conserve they should consider loaning money at no interest for us to purchase energy efficient equipment. And the savings per year go back to them for the loan.

As a small landlord its pretty hard to shell out say 5k for a newer boiler for a tenant. And then wait 27 years for a full write off. I am not the one getting the savings. If anyone wants to lend me money at 0 percent interest & eliminate depreciation I would be doing lots more replacing of items.

I wrote it all up here: http://home.comcast.net/~oreo123/fossil.html

Tony_23

how about...

The gov't staying out of it ? Any loan from them would be your own money with strings attached.

I do agree about the depreciation schedule, it should be like 5 years. That would spur some spending

As far as you not getting the savings, Tenants who can afford the bills usually stay. That's a benefit. Another benefit is the increased value of your property when you sell. The rental game isn't about eating off it month to month, it's about investment.

JeffD

I do agree with you Bill, to a point. We have already done a lot to conserve where we can. Our house was built in 1940, back in the days when heat was dirt cheap. The previous owner was using 800 gallons of oil a year. Last year we were able to get that down to 550 gallons. We replaced a fairly new forced hot air system with hot water baseboard heat. The reason for the replacement was not that the equipment was inefficient, but that the duct work was very leaky, and due to the homes construction putting in new duct work would have been a nightmare. The basement was heated by a single supply duct, but no return, so basically I was pressurizing the basement and forcing heat through and small cracks and crevices. I have done all that I can to get the heating plant to be efficient, now I need to look at the building evelope, and as we all know older homes are not cheap to tighten up. My post yesterday was mainly to blow off some steam. As I run the family finances it sometimes gets me angry to see how much of our budget is going to energy costs. Thanks for you input, next year I will start working on tightening the building up the best I can.

allenh

to Tony

I am curious... why would you suggest 5 years for depreciation? The supply house and contractor will not wait 5 years to get paid at zero percent interest.

The govt has their hands on rental properties in the form of taxes paid on rents after expenses; and eventual capital gains taxes.

Tony_23

Because

Five is better than 27.

You make money after expenses ? I'm impressed, most use it as a write-off and long-term investment.

Quit whining and play the game