new boiler = cold basement?

ScottMP

The heat belongs upstairs, not in the basement. Do you use the basement alot ? Is it insulated ? Are there good windows ? Do you LIKE loosing heat and spending money ?

An old cast iron radiator probably is not a bad solution but think of tightning up the structure first and then see if its warm enough. Spend the money on the envelope first.

Spilling heat off the boiler and loosing it from the system piping is no way to heat a home.

Scott

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Jim_66

new boiler = cold basement? ideas?

Hi all!

Thanks for the good advice last week on the buderus boiler. Ive done a lot of research and am pretty impressed, we're gonna have one installed.

I have a concern though that the installer kind of shrugs over...

our current boiler is a 1920s round oil boiler. needless to say, it radiates plenty of heat into the basement just due to age.

Im concerned the new buderus will leave the basement very cold. The installer says (and I quote) "that might be true".
But hasnt really got a solution for us!!

DOes anybody have any simple solutions to get some heat into the basement? It is about 300 square feet, unfinished.

We dont need it to be really warm, maybe like 60 degrees.
I asked the installer if a salvage radiator just sitting next to the boiler would work...(the boiler is already going to be amply sized for our house)

he seemed to think that was silly, and has far more expensive solutions that are overkill for the space.

I'd appreciate any clever solutions that experience has given you guys I can toss at the installer !

regards
jim
st. paul

Constantin

Here is where I would start...

... have that Buderus installed but omit the pipe insulation. Instead, insulate the walls of the basement, weatherize the windows, etc. Then see how cold the basement gets.

If the basement becomes too warm, start by insulating the supply piping. If it's too warm after insulating the supply piping, insulate the returns as well. My guess is that once you insulate the basement walls that you won't need the radiator.

Constantin

....

... argh, double post ...

George Peteya_2

Outside Combustion Air ...

... will most likely be a feature on that new boiler. When I replaced my 1950s 6-section Smith, which had a dhw coil and therefore sat at 180°F. all the time, with a 3-section Slant/Fin XL-30, cold start, primary/secondary with injection mixing, insulated piping, and Field Boot, the basement temperature went UP 6°F. in the dead of winter. Why? The Smith was pulling outside air through every crack and crevice in the house, and the XL-30 wasn't. Longer calls for heat due to the o/d reset may have helped, too ... the boiler never cooled down in the winter because one of the zones was either calling for heat or had just done so.

Joe Brix

just get the piping ready

I'd just get an extra supply/return piped into the manifolds with ball valves. Nice to have if later you think you need the additional zone.

Chuckles_3

The basement may get cold but not as cold as you fear. I haven't seen your house, but in most homes the basements are directly under the first floor, with a lot of surface area connecting them (the floor of the first floor and the ceiling of the basement). Typically this layer doesn't insulate very well, so the basement will get heat simply from the first floor being warm. It won't be 70, but it won't be 40 either. There are a lot of variables.

Dale

favorite spot?

As the last post suggested leaving valved off connections to the supply and return now is cheap and makes an extra zone easy later if you need it. A friend of mine has a length of baseboard above his standing area near his basement bench and the "ceiling radiant" works fine for that spot.

Constantin

... a VERY good point!

Sealed combustion may reduce your heating needs in the basement significantly due to the infiltration issues that non-sealed units entail. I had to insulate/seal the living daylights out of my utility room because Viessmann does not endorse combustion air being led directly to the oil burner. Argh.

Russ Stockton

new boiler cold basement

ANOTHER main concern you should have is where your new boiler is going to get combustion air from. 300 square feet certainly is not adaquate.

Mike20

Heaven Forbid - Electric heat

Electric heat is a viable option particularly if you only use the basement occasionally or just want to maintain minimum heat- A 10 ft strip of electric baseboard connected to 220 Volts and a thermostat set at 50 Degrees will keep the basement livable on the coldest days.

Then when you want to have the boys over for a card game you just move the thermostat to 72 and you have comfortable space in no time.

It does not get any simpler than that.

For the best results use a low voltage thermostat like the Honeywell T87F in conjunction with a relay to control the heat, Line voltage thermostats are notorious for being inaccurate.

Always use a licensed electrical contractor for this type wiring. Contact me if you want a wiring diagram.
Good luck MG



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Ron Schroeder

A big advantage for me when I replaced my old boiler with a Buderus was the basement was no longer unusably warm in the summer.

I did add a strip of baseboard on it's own zone to heat the basement.

I heavily insulated all the pipes relating to the indirect for lowest standby losses in the summer but did not insulate the rest of the heating zone pipes.

Ron

GaryDidier

Cold basement

Jim,

I take this into account when installing a new system in an old house. My preferred system is a seperate zone with a small modine heater. The advantage is with a fan moving the air it will eliminate cold spots where a pipe might freeze. It would still be a good idea to install a fresh air intake for the burner and do what you can to tighten up the building envelope. Good luck.

Gary from Granville

Jim_66

thank you re: basement and..whats a modine?

Hi all!

Lots of great advice. I think what im goint to do is:

1) have stubouts/valves installed for future expansion.
2) see how we do in the winter for warmth, and expirement with bare/insulating supply pipes

Two quick questions:

1) What is a modine heater?

2) Would it help to enclose the boiler so that that cold makeup air didnt spill into the basement? (with the old boiler make up air comes from, well--everywhere. It is a fairly leaky basement).

thank ytou again for all the helpful advice...

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Jim: Where are you located and what type of temperature do you expect to maintain in the basement? About what portion of the basement walls are above grade (exposed to the weather)?

In my climate (winter design temp of 8°F) it's rare for a not-very-tight, completely unheated, old-house basement to drop below 50°--provided of course that some form of central heating is used throughout the ground floor and basement doors/windows are closed and in somewhat reasonable condition. Modern and/or reasonably tight basements rarely drop much below 60°.

My own house averages a bit more than 50% above grade with a two-car, north-facing garage, 6 windows and five glazed doors. Replaced my boiler last season with sealed-combustion, wall-hung condensing/modulating. Space heating pipes are insulated everywhere save the garage. Lowest basement temp I recorded was 48° with outdoor temp of 0°. Typical temp around 55°. Ground floor temp was maintained at about 60°.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Modine Heater

Forgot to say. Am quite certain he's referring to Modine Unit Heaters. They're the squarish heaters you see hanging near ceilings in auto garages, old stores, greenhouses, etc. There are other manufacturers but Modine is to Unit Heaters rather like Kleenex is to Facial Tissue.

They are fan-assisted. Many are self-contained (natural gas or propane) but they're also available with hot water coils.