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Our first Three-Pass... and this one's Gas! (Steamhead)

gerry gill
gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
nice looking install..was it a weird feeling to work on a water boiler after so much steam boiler work?

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gwgillplumbingandheating.com
Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

Comments

  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    My neighbor had this 1970s American-Standard cube-shaped boiler

    which was not only twice as big as the house needed, but would not show better than 74% combustion efficiency due to lots of excess air. She had gotten several proposals by the "label method", but we did a full heat-loss calc. I had previously changed the circ from a Taco 007 (original was a B&G 100) to a Taco 005 to get a decent delta-T, which helped.

    By now, this old beast is on its way to China as scrap. Note how they tied the returns together with Dresser couplings. I've seen quite a few American-Standard units done that way around here, but they were older models.

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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    New one partially installed

    This is a Solaia SL375, which is a re-badged 3-pass Biasi distributed by Boyertown Furnace and sold by the local Columbia supply house. They sell this boiler not only with the usual oil burners but also with the HeatWise SU-2A power gas burner. I have learned that HeatWise was started by the former VP/Engineering of ABC-Sunray.

    There was really no good place for sidewall venting in this house- a common circumstance in old neighborhoods. It's a 2-family house with two separately metered water heaters, so using the chimney as a vent chase is out. This was the most efficient boiler we could find that could hook up to a chimney. And it can be switched to oil if desired- she'd need a tank for that though.

    Here we see Gordon as he finishes soldering the return piping. The flue pipe will come up in front of these pipes.

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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    Up and running

    The piping diagram for this type of boiler is a bit unusual. It comes with a Danfoss thermostatic bypass valve which goes in either the supply or return line, to regulate the incoming water temperature. They want the expansion tank on the return line before the valve, and the 1/2" bypass connection after the circulator so the water will loop back into the return when the boiler is cold. The air separator comes after the bypass. It's still Pumping Away.

    We tried a Taco 007 at first, but it couldn't move enough water past the bypass valve. So we switched to a Taco 0010, which worked well.


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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    The bypass valve

    showing how it connects to the system. The incoming water is held at 140 degrees. The system circulates slowly at first, but picks up as the return warms up.

    The HeatWise SU-2A power gas burner is about the easiest thing to set up I've ever seen. Set up your analyzer, check the input rate and pre-set the head and air, warm up the boiler and fine-tune. Oh, and the instructions are very clear on CO.

    Can't wait to do a therms-per-degree-day analysis on this one!

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  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,568
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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    It's a

    > what make bypass valve is that?

    >

    > _A

    > HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

    > 313&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

    > Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

    > "Find A Professional"_/A_





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  • David Sutton_6
    David Sutton_6 Member Posts: 1,079
    Steamhead

    Did it take you a while to get used to the small pipe wrenches ??? Nice job buddy!!...David

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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    I just had

    to remember to use just one hand on the wrench instead of two. Thanks, guys.

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  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    The nice folks

    at the Columbia distributership showed me the Solaia boiler last Winter. I liked the looks of it. I didnt know it was availible in gas also. The size you put in has an IBR rating of about 80,000, doesnt it? That means you took out something with 160,000. That's really going to improve the length of their cycles. The bypass will also protect the boiler while the radiators warm up. Also, won't the 3 pass design help protect the boiler from condensation too? Good job. Thanks for sharing. WW


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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    Thanks, Wayne-

    You're right, the old boiler was way oversized. Laptops and heat-loss software are cheap enough that there's no reason any contractor should be without them. Yet a lot of contractors still use the label method. That's one reason we got the job.

    I'm not sure if the 3-pass design helps reduce condensation, but it does result in better efficiency.

    This installation was the result of our quest to find something for gas installations that (1) would be more efficient than the usual atmospheric boiler, (2) could be switched to oil or any other fuel that uses an inshot flame-retention burner, and (3) could be hooked up to an existing lined chimney with other standard gas appliances. I mentioned this to Gary at the Columbia supply house, and he told me about the Solaia being available with a gas burner. We'll sell more of these, with both oil and gas burners.

    The only problem is, the Solaia is not available as a steamer. We'll have to find something else for that.

    I think the ability to burn more than one fuel will be more and more important as prices rise and supplies get uncertain. Commercial boilers have had this capability for years- there's no reason residential customers can't have it too. Yet some manufacturers steadfastly refuse to back their oil-designed boilers if they are used with gas conversion burners. I have as much trouble understanding this as I have with their refusal to produce 90%+ steam boilers, which are commonplace in other countries.

    We'll hopefully be tracking fuel consumption in this house next winter, so we should have some numbers to show how much more efficient this boiler is.

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  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,212
    nice job

    Nice job steamhead .That soliars boiler looks quite nice i really like the fact that you can get a gas gun for it ,does the combustion chamber have a refactory or does it firedirectly into the chamber with no target wall,also is the gas gun used avaiable in a hi low fire or modulating? Was this system originally gravity ,and i really like that danfoss thermic return valve when i ask about them around hear they look at me like i'm a freak or something.Also hats off to you and your crew for doing the proper heat loss anmd installing the right size boiler for the job finally the HO's will she some savings on there ulitilty bills plus the opition of changing fuels to oil if they insist ,Great job peace and good luck clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • Christian Egli_2
    Christian Egli_2 Member Posts: 812
    A red jacket packs more flaming heat

    Nice job on researching boiler options. I love thumping my nose at either the gas utility or the oil dealer with just a flick of the switch. Being loose footed and flexible is a serious advantage I will pay for. Good for you for finding the boiler that does just that.

    You're a nice team you and Gordon. Congratulations.


  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    The fire door has refractory

    but the rest of the firing zone is bare cast-iron. The only burners available in this size are on-off, but that may change in the next few years. Upgrading the burner in this should be relatively easy.

    Yes, it was originally gravity. The delta-T is about 17 degrees with this setup.

    Christian, believe it or not this boiler wasn't that much more expensive than an atmospheric one.

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  • Christian Egli_2
    Christian Egli_2 Member Posts: 812
    Irresistible

    Ooooh, then buying one in every available color is a must.
  • Maine Doug_38
    Maine Doug_38 Member Posts: 5
    Blue version

    I have 2 of of these in blue/green skins. It is nice to know that I can use gas also.
    Is the gas gun quieter than Reillo oil?
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    Nope

    sounds more like a Beckett. But I don't find that objectionable. I tell people it's "the sound of high efficiency".

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  • Maine Doug_38
    Maine Doug_38 Member Posts: 5
    Hi Ken

    To get rid of the oil tank in the doghouse, to reduce the stinky exhaust at the back of the building and reduce the requirement to repaint the metal around the roof line above the vents. If I had to do it over, I would have built a cement block doghouse and put the B's in it and used the vault for a pantry. But my wife will not let me spend any more money on the heating system.

    Doghouse--small building against the north door wall in parking lot for oil tank, saws and packing materials.
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    How I pipe those Thermix

    When using those valves (I've got gobs of them installed) I pipe them with a full size crossover and pipe the boiler P/s to the system. This keeps the water flow constant for proper distribution, no matter what temp you supply to the system. If you add a reset control, you can now do a full on full reset temp to a system on a pretty slim budget. Here's one feeding (sorry Steamhead) a recent one pipe steam conversion..the system was reallly screwed up!
    I really don't know what happened to those newer Amercian Standards...The older 1960's models (G- series) seem to run more efficient. Like 76 to 78 % on the analyzer, even in steam.

    Boilerpro

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  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    That one

    is piped according to the diagram in the boiler manual, 1/2" bypass and all. We'll see how well it works this winter.... seemed to be OK when we fired it. P/S sounds like a winner if we get circulation problems.

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This discussion has been closed.