Carbon Monoxide

Mad Dog_2

safety...as you said, Mark..time will tell, but how many victims will be harmed in the mean time? Mad Dog

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Larry (from OSHA)

interesting findings

just saw this and it is one more bit of ammo for Mark Hunt and others.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-06/uoc--hce060305.php

(I still wish I knew how to make a link!)

Larry (from OSHA)

Mark Hunt

Hi Larry


Thanks for the link.

I've condensed it here.

Carbon Monoxide

Mark H

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

To make a link here:

plain old Hyper-Text Markup Language (HTML)

Have attached as an image since if I type as shown it will "do its' thing".

The open and close brackets (shift + comma; shift + period) MUST be done exactly as shown. The only change you make is the italicized text.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Sounds rather alarmist to me.

I'll never forget reading the full text of the EPA study regarding "treated" lumber that someone posted here.

Truly amazing piece of work.

Main concern was arsenic exposure to children.

They could not find arsenic in any concentration above natural levels anywhere near large constructions using the lumber.

They did suggest that if children literally ate quantities of the soil in functioning treatment plant yards that there was potential for harm.

The conclusion was that "more studies were needed". It seemed rather apparent to me that they were going to continue to study, over and over, until they found one that confirmed their pre-conceived belief that it must be harmful in some way.

It took nothing more for manufacturers to voluntarily change to an alternative treatment process.

AND if they couldn't find problems with the arsenic, it was also suggested that an alternative route to finding "harm" was the chromium.

Larry (from OSHA)

making links

Thanks Mike. Again the Wall is all things boilers and SO much more. I learn something new here every day. I appreciate it.

Larry

Mad Dog_2

Due to the alarmist panic that can get going................

I too, read and listen,, and wait long periods of time before "buying" in to any theory. We'll have to keep our eyes and ears open, Mike. Went on a boiler service yesterday...yes these folks are Proactive...not waiting until next november. The women told me that "everyone" she spoke to said she was nuts for getting her heating system checked every year (unnecessary costs) , but that she reads about too many CO Deaths in the paper every day. Everything checked out fine. This young mother of a one-yearold was happy and when I left I gave her a good come-back for those who laughed at her: "Hey!, its cheaper than a funeral." Mad Dog

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Mark Hunt_2

I used to think like you


then I learned the truth.

Go beyond this headline Mike.

Then come back to me about "Alarmist".

I have been sitting on stuff like this for quite a while. Didn't want to upset the "experts".

How many studies do you require before it is proven?

I'll keep a tally of the "collateral damage" until the rest of the industry catches up. You write the apology to the loved ones of the affected, including the dead.

I respect you sir, but until you have done the research, you speak from a position of ignorance. Are you willing to bet your life on it? Are you willing to bet OTHER'S LIVES on it? Or how about the quality of those lives?

Argue all you want, CO is still the NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF ACCIDENTAL POISONING DEATHES IN NORTH AMERICA. You can't argue that Mike. But those are just "Acute" numbers. We have just started counting the "chronic" poisoning numbers. "Alarmist" or Alarming? You pick.

Maybe that old addage is true...........The truth hurts....


Mark H

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Jim Davis_3

CO-Hearing

Last week a Canadian study stated that if you are exposed to CO and noise above 95 decibels you will suffer more hearing loss than just being exposed to CO. Next will be people who are exposed to CO and look directly into the sun for long periods suffer more sight loss than those just exposed to CO.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Will try Mark. I certainly appreciate the danger and am glad that serious studies concerning chronic low-level exposure are being conducted. Just hope it doesn't result in a de-facto ban (because of exceptional cost of safety compliance) on residential gas cooking stoves...

Have been a bit touchy on similar lately. My DJ knocked up the girl whose main job is to clean off tables and wash glasses. (Neither have ANY business with a kid.) She now refuses to wash glasses because a chlorine product is used in the final rinse. Did research a bit and "experts" suggest that pregnant women avoid contact with full-strength household bleach but in the same breath say that they should only swim in chlorinated water. Not sure of the concentration of chlorine in the rinse water, but certainly much closer to a swimming pool than a bottle of bleach. Strange thing is that she doesn't say, "I'll have to stop working until after the baby because of all the cigarette smoke." Seems she's just coming up with a flimsy (dare I say alarmist-related) excuse to keep from doing half her job...

Brian (Tankless)

True story

A man was handcuffed, arrested, f/printed, put in jail, and charged with the attempted murder of his wife. She was taken to hospital with arcenic poisoning. Naturally, he was the suspect.

Until the whole story came out. They had worked jointly, to almost completely surround their home with a new deck....yes, you know what's coming. She was more prone to the immediate effects of the chemicals in the treated lumber, and got sick first. As they were about to noose the guy, HE came down with the same symptoms. They wouldn't believe him until HE almost died. They both lived, but not without the loss of his job and a lot of other hardships.

No smoke without fire eh? But treated lumber is still sold!! I still use it (very carefully & respectfully) for critical applications, but not for kids playgrounds or decks & handrails.

Here in SW Louisiana, I checked our local HVAC suppliers for CO testers, none of them has EVER sold a single one.

CO? "we don't worry about that stuff".

Ignorance is bliss, sleep tight.

Brian, Tankless in Swampland.

Constantin

Funny that you should mention that...

... when they were building the deck skeletons around my house, the carpenters naturally also used PT lumber. However, imagine my surprise at the casual treatment of the fines and the cut edges.

One journeyman/apprentice plumber was just about to have lunch outside when he used the freshly-cut deck posts to steady himself. I told him it would be a good idea to wash his hands before using them to stuff food in his throat considering that he had just exposed himself to fresh arsenic/copper-laced wood dust. He looked up puzzled, thought for 2 seconds, then went off to wash his hands.

Having worked with Cupruos oxide in the marine business, I am not convinced that the switch to copper is that much of an improvement in terms of safety.

John R. Hall

I suffer, too

...when I have to listen to Celine Dion.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Story Does Appear True

But there are a fair number of VERY similar stories on the web with different points of origin. Not saying it's true in this case, but such is one of the hallmarks of an urban legend.

The cynic in me says it might be possible that murder was being attempted and when poisoning was discovered, hubby intentionally ingested just enough arsenic to make himself sick and remove suspicion. Not all murders are OJs...