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Keith_8 Member Posts: 399
It takes a big man to publicly amend your statements.

Your points are well taken. How a company handles itself when some bumps in the road are encountered are more important to me than how they handle themselves when all is well. I try and conduct myself the same way in business. It's not easy when you have to satisfy the bottom liners every day. But in the long run we live and die by our reputation and not the immediate bottom line.

Thank you for your honesty,


  • Please read

    I should have used more discretion before I put foreward my critique of something that I knew was more good than bad.

    I sure do respect what Dave Davis and all of the good people who work with HTP have done by introducing an affordable condensing boiler to the ripened US market. You've woken a sleeping Giant. I'm of the opinion that we must to begin to embrace environmentalism by using our finite gas reserves much more efficiently.

    I'd like to clarify a few things with regard to some of my older statements that I've made here about the Munchkin boiler without causing harm to to, or causing suspicion of anyone. There have been many problematic strings here and I should be trying to mend some of the wounds that cut perhaps deeper than they needed to be. The Munchkin problems that are being seen both publicly and privately are a result of a cumulative knowledge of installers in the field coupled with consumer feedback.

    I've been of the opinion, that people (homeowners) should know when product failures begin to point toward a trend rather than being small exceptions to major reliability issues. Public discussion boards are an increasing and undeniable trend that we see becoming a very powerful force. As a small contractor, I may set my sights upon this site as being one of the the great equalizers of Truth- VS- power. The truth will always be a matter of ones opinion and usually is found somewhere in between two opposing points.

    Mr. Holohan once spoke about the "bell curve."... I believe I've fallen a victim to reading the top of the bell curve alone. There have been numerous contractors posting here who have found this product to be nearly flawless. That's another part of the bell curve. The reality of the two, (the truth) lies somewhere in between these points. It's up to the reader to make their own decisions based upon the things they read.

    What I have failed to do in the past is; Respect and keep in mind the dedicated human beings who work at HTP and the fact that really do care about what they are doing. They come to work each day and work hard to support their families. Here In America!!! They really do believe in what they are doing. For this, my indiscretion, I am Deeply and Sincerely Sorry.

    My major offering; Viessmann is missing but one key element of our market that HTP really seem to be interested in;,,, The cost sensitive consumer! Unfortunately, lower cost is what is driving our US market at this point. The success of WalMart is a testimony to this mentality and we all at some time/level have fallen prey to this mentality. Until people realize that quality, reliability, dependability, longevity and cheap do not go together, there will always be compromises.

    Every boiler company experiences problems from time to time. It's how they react to those problems that matters. After researching the archives here and a few other sites, I've come to realize that Team HTP has been answering the call since the beginning.

    What can NOT be said enough, is to thank our Captain; Dan Holohan. In this board that he has provided us, we are all able to voice our opinions and concerns based upon our life experiences. This I believe will result in the betterment of the hydronics industry as a whole. Nothing less than open discussion will do.

    Although this forum is centered on the betterment of hydronic heating, it has grown to be so much more than just a Board to Post questions and responses about work. It has become a community of friends. Friends & family. Sometimes opinions may get in the way of some friendships. That's ok. It's what we do together as a community that really matters regardless of our "bell curve" opinions.

    Broome's loss is way more important than responding to this thread.

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  • Sweet_2
    Sweet_2 Member Posts: 143
    Way to go Gary

    I've considered using Munchkins, but after your concerns and others I was a little hesitant, I appreciate your post and feel better about the product.
  • Sounds like John Kerry !

    Talk about a flip flopper. I have been installing HTP products since I started in this trade in 1986 it started with the tankless replacement coils,super stor indirects,voyager and finally the Munchkin.My experence has been mostly with one man at HTP John Sawyer. In my opinion John Sawyer is a credit to the industry, any situation I have had John has come through and taken care of it.I agree with a lot that Gary has said, I think he has taken the time to be fair in his opinion.
  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509

  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Hear Hear!

    I totally agree, Mark. Gary is giving HTP the chance it deserves and I hope that they in turn retire his Voodoo doll on the company dartboard :-)

    But seriously, from everything I have seen here on the Wall seems to indicate that the company is standing behind its products. They may not be as super-engineered as some of their competitors, but they get the job done and with the right installer, they'll get the job done well. Not everyone can afford a Viessmann Vitodens, and the more price/performance-points that a consumer can choose from, the better.

    As an aside, I believe HTP is a private company, i.e. it has fewer shareholders to satisfy.
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