Refrigeration fittings VS water fittings

Carl PE

pm engineer <a href="http://www.pmengineer.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2732,141370,00.html">link</a>

iirc, this guy was trying to sell a "dimpler" tool for the fittings.

[Deleted User]

Refrigeration VS Water Fittings

We are having a disagreement around here over the differance between refrigation fittings and water fittings.
I just read an article about how to set a pipe into a water fittings to braze for refrigation. The article talked about not setting it to deep in the socket and talked about a tool make to place a stop in the fitting to keet from setting it to deep. Did anybody see that article and knows where I may find it?
Does anybody know where I can get info like that?

Mitch_4

I would never use

water fittings in refrigeration. Not made for it. Not dehydrated. not rated for refrigeration. It may not be designed to take the pressure either. (Iheard that once, but not sure of the validity).

Stcik with refrigeration fittings. keep them seperate, and clean. I use old margarine (5# tub) rubbermaid containers that the wife saves for me. They stack, and seal.

Big Ed

interesting

A brazed connection is a bead around where the fitting and the tubing meet.Where a soldered connection is along the inside of wall of the fitting and tubing.

Does pulling out the tubing when brazing lowers resistance or prevents a dirt trap?

[Deleted User]

The refrigeration fittings we buy are in boxes (not bags like med gas fitting) so I don't see where having a dehydrated fitting would do much good if it's not bagged.

FredR

Refrigeration fittings VS water fittings

Author: big ed
Subject: interesting

"A brazed connection is a bead around where the fitting and the tubing meet.Where a soldered connection is along the inside of wall of the fitting and tubing."

A properly brazed joint will have the filler material drawn into the fitting socket in the same manner as solder. I personally think brazing is over used, Stay Brite #8 does a very good job with a lot less heat. And I was taught to fully seat the pipe in the fitting. (unless it is a little short) Hmmm!
IMO, just my 2¢.

jim lockard

If only

they would make propress fittings for ref. work.

Boiler Guy

Soon, I'll bet

> they would make propress fittings for ref. work.

Boiler Guy

Soon, I'll bet

Viton O rings ..... lock and load

Boiler Guy

SO.... how do you REALLY tell the difference??

What is the criteria one would use to determine the difference between AC and water fittings ... for the uniniated helper. I have 3 boxes of 1/4 to 3/4 fittings that even I can't really be sure of the difference. I guess weight would help determine it.

Djorn

Fiting difference

Refrig. fittings are usually long radius fittings, to reduce pressure drop in the lines, while water fittings are usually short radius fittings, since pressure drop is not usually as critical an issue.

Mitch_4

we buy ours

bagged too..but we'll split some of the lesser used pieces amongst 2-3 guys. Hence the rubbermaid containers.

Big Ed

Stay Brite

I hear of a few guys using Stay Brite..Do you need to use **** with it ?

I use the small oxi unit , #15 rod and use a heat sink that comes in a cauk tube.... I have problems around the back of the fitting you can not see. Would be nice if rod would flow

jim lockard

Stay Brite

I love Stay brite, been useing it for years with no problems. Low tempture will not burn up the valves and fittings like silflos. As for flux Ed I use the Stay Brite brand such as Stay clean. J.Lockard

S Ebels

Differences

Frig fittings are usually longer radius (ells) and from what I understand, are tested to higher pressure. (I don't know this to be a fact) They are sized by the OD of the tubing, thus, a 7/8" refrig fitting fits the same OD tube as a 3/4" plumbing fitting. Same with 5/8" refrig and 1/2" plumbing stuff.

I have used them interchangably (in a pinch) for years and not had a single problem. I wouldn't see anything wrong with plumbing fittings especially on the vapor side of the system. The caveat here is to be certain the fittings, whichever breed, are clean.

On the matter of brazing vs soldering, I was taught to braze everything in a refrigeration system and did so for many years. Then one day I came across a spec sheet for Staybrite 8 and I haven't brazed a fitting since. I have never had one let go even on commercial apps. In fact I recall going to look a a condenser we had installed that was on it's 4th summer. It was hotter than the hubs of you know where and the condenser was nearly hidden by long grass and choked off with poplar tree fuzz. The high side showed a pressure of 470 PSI and the poor thing was so hot I thought it would start the grass on fire!!! If that didn't cause the StayBrite to fail I don't know what would.

Jim S

unfortunately you can`t use stay-brite with 410-A refrigerant,the lines have to be brazed. it`s not the pressures that are an issue it`s the flux in the system.

TGO_54

Try using

Blockade. It is a brazing rod so you have to use high temps, but it will flow more like a solder.

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Rookie_3

ACR tubing is clean, dehydrated, and seamless. Brazed joints vs. solder.....if you were in a super market or some
place similar with overhead AC lines knowing that fire turns freon into Fosfeen (Mustard) gas, which would you prefer, a soldered or brazed fitting? 5% silver brazing rod takes 1,100* to melt it and the higher the silver the more temp needed.............ROOKIE

Big Ed

Flux

I always thought one of the reasons using rod was the fact that you did not need flux .. I thought introduction of flux to the system is adding acid to it. And the acid eats away at the windings ?? Is this incorrect way of thinking??

jim lockard

I set

the pipe half way in the fitting then flux. Ed I try not to over flux the fitting. Most compressor bearing equipment today has dryers built in or added. Think more equipment fails from poor evaction then flux. IMHO Best Wishes J.Lockard

jim lockard

The Smoke

From the 600 degree packaging burning, will get you long before the phogene gas will. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Scott Kneeland

staybrite 8 vs brazing

I have used both with no problem. I have used staybrite 8 in tight spots and attic jobs on R22 where the less fire the better. I do mostly Trane systems so the R410a is common, for this you must braze all joints. I have always used a small oxy/acetelene torch to braze it heats up much quicker with a smaller tip and helps stop the overheating of the surounding area. Good evacuation is the most important part, USE A MICRON GAUGE.

Question for thoes guys using Staybrite8 do you only flux the male fitting? I do and was taught this way. is it correct?

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Rookie_3

Hey Jim, Good point!! Never thought of the packaging.(PVC)
ROOKIE

Paul P

what about the nitrogen

all this talk about brazing and soldering. Do you run nitrogen when using the stay bright?

freon12

flux

I've been in refrigeration for over 20 years and for my 2cents this is the way we braze.....

Copper to Copper - no flux 5% to 15 % rod
Copper to brass - staybrite flux 5% to 15 % rod
Copper to Steel - staybrite flux 45% silver solder
Copper to Steel - 2nd option staystill and brass rod dipped into soldering flux w/ staybrite on fittings

This might sound funny but it took me a few months to actually solder water lines, I always ran the torch to hot, to me it was actually hard to solder as opposed to braze...The 1st few years that I was doing water lines I was actually taking the valves apart and brazing water lines
To me solder was so flimsey and weak compared to brazing....


have fun

freon12

nitrogen

The purpose of the nitrogen is this

When brazing pipes toghter in large systems you trickle nitrogen threw the system to limit the amount of "slag" inside the pipes.

Slag: basically a flacky substance that is like a dust, I think its actually carbon but not sure....

S Ebels

And......

The nitrogen is used to prevent oxidation of the tubing due to the high heat required with brazing (1100*+) When you braze you are actually melting the tube and the filler material together. At temps in this range the copper will begin to "burn" or oxidize. Purging the tube with nitrogen eliminates the problem because oxidation cannot occur without oxygen.

Not so with soldering. The temps don't go high enough to cause internal oxidation of the pipe. Therefore, no flakes. If I'm not mistaken Solderene flux is non acid base.

jim lockard

scott

I only flux the male part of the fitting