Before/After Pics of outstanding install

vhlaundry

Ed,
Again, this is really a work of art. Your attention to detail is outstanding. I especially like how you used the spacers on the joists to keep all your PEX equally spaced.

You are an excellent example of a real pro that knows his stuff and cares about his work!

RoosterBoy

Buderus/Panel Rad installation

I would like to thank everyone here for the incredible eduaction I have received. I went from thinking I could heat my house with a domestic hot water heater, 3 months ago, to actually understanding the nuances of the photos you are about to see. I am a very proud and happy client. Most of all I would like to thank Ted Gregoriadis of Patriot Heating and Cooling. I have never met anyone so passionate and concerned about my comfort. Ted allowed me to be his apprentice throughout the project-from design to hands on installation. He is a scholar, a gentleman, and a new good friend.

This install is in Arlington, MA near Boston. I am the homeowner/designer/GC. My wife and I live-in/design/renovate houses in addition to our day jobs. The house is about 2400SF of living space, another 600 heated utility/shop space. 1930's house under renovation with good envelope improvements (Icynine, hi-quality storms). About 16 home-run DiaNorm panel rads w/TRV, 40' of fin-tube, Modine in shop. Constant circulation, outdoor reset. This system replaced a poorly installed steam system. I had just replaced the DHW heater last year not knowing we were going to do this, so I could not justify the cost of ripping it out and doing indirect. We piped it for a future install.

Our cool spring weather has been an excellent test for the degree of control this system provides. Normally the house would have been overheating or freezing trying to keep pace with our outdoor temps of 40's at night to 65 day. The indoor temp has not moved more than .5 degrees from the set 70 temp (except when I'm messing with pump speeds, flow rates and TRV settings!). Makes me feel good about our weatherization measures also.

Please comment/ask questions. Most of all, cheers to Ted and everyone here.

Ed

Joe@buderus

Nice installation! Like the quality of workmanship and attention to detail. Thanks for the pictures.

lchmb

Excellent

Ted, you do nice work sir!! Ed enjoy that beautiful system.

Paul Pollets

Nice!!

Good work!!

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RoosterBoy

Joe, maybe you can help.

Joe, I had only one small issue that I'm hoping you can help with. The venting goes through the wall and across the garage below the finish ceiling for 10' to the outside wall. The garage is under the house (heated space above with insulated floor). The garage is unheated but connected to the shop which is heated. The temp in the garage never gets below 40 degrees even on the coldest winter day. Ted called Buderus before installing and asked if you guys approved venting in this situation, which of course you did.

The inspector would not take my word for the Buderus approval and asked for a letter in writing approving this. His concern being if temps went way below freezing, codensation would freeze-a valid arguement if this were the case which it is not. It never gets below 40. When Ted called, they would not write the letter. He failed the inspection. Now I need to either heat the garage (a waste of energy) or build an enclosure that would severely limit headroom. Either of these he said he would approve. Can you please advise or help in some way?

Thanks

Ed

No comment on that "Buderus" thermometer Joe?

RoosterBoy

I was just wondering what that black buderus panel is on the wall never seen it before

ed with a system like that maybe next year you could put outdoor reset on it like the 2107 with indoor sensor

good luck and Ted nice job

thanks

Ted_9

Ed, thanks for the kind words. It was actually my pleasure to work with someone who invested a bit of time to find out what they wanted in a heating system. Not to mention all of the work that you did.

Roosterboy, as far as the digital panel, I'll let Ed explain. And yes, an R2107 with a BFU sensor is connected to the system.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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thepassenger

Buderus digital panel

My only complaint on the Buderus system is a lack of digital feedback from the BFU (room sensor). You need to go down to the boiler room to find out the outside temp, settings, etc. I made my own by using a few Oregon Scientific wireless thermometers. There are 3 in various places around the house that broadcast indoor/outdoor/remote temps. I made adhesive covers with the Buderus logo for fun. There are smaller, simpler ones up in the living spaces. I gave a few to Ted also and could make more if anyone is interested...

Its very un-Euro to know your indoor temp but I like the reassurance of them...

hr

Nice work

and good idea leaving the box on the boiler during the "fitting" phase!

hot rod

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PJO_7

Ed...

Beautiful!!! You can see and feel the craftmanship...

I have two questions; 1) Is there a PAB for each side? Unless I can't see it, if only one or two of the TRV's are open the pump won't like it, right? 2) I see that soem of the Pex is white while others are "opaque"...is that two different types? What's the reason?

Take care, PJO

Joe@buderus

The requirements on the exhaust piping is code, not a Buderus rule. I did speak with Ted regarding the requested letter and check with multiple sources for a solution. Boxing in the vent pipe is recommended.

Hopefully there will not be a huge request for the "Buderus digital thermometers". There are nice touches and quality work through out the installation.

RoosterBoy

PAB

When you say PAB are you referring to a differential pressure bypass? I'm not familiar with the PAB acronym.

There is no need for bypass valves in this setup-each manifold has a circuit that has open flow, manifold-one is piped to a 10' strip of baseboard in the utility room with no TRV or thermostat, manifold-2 is piped to a Modine heat exchanger in the shop where the heat is controlled by the integral fan. Ted is a firm believer in keeping things simple, since we had the utility loops that work as open circuits by design, we were able to eliminate bypass valves which is just one more thing that can go wrong.

Good eye on the PEX. The white is PEX with an aluminum core (Wirsbo AL-PEX) and the other is Wirsbo standard PEX. The AL-PEX feeds all the panel rads and the other feeds the baseboard I needed to use in a large room with lots of glass. This required larger diameters for the heat-loss of that room.

RoosterBoy

Looks like I'm getting a heated garage then...!

I'll let you know if Buderus thermometers start going into mass production...maybe we can work out a deal???

Ed

PJO_7

I knew...

there was a reason. Sorry for the confusion...I was thinking Pressure Activated By-pass.

So the utility room has the heat going through it constantly...regulated by the outdoor reset temp.? Must have nailed the heatloss for that area on the button! ;-)

Take Care, PJO

RoosterBoy

The heat in the shop and utility room is not sized for comfort on a design day. Its mostly there to keep the chill out and to keep domestic water pipes from freezing that run through those spaces. The steam pipes that used to run through those spaces took care of that worry in the past-taking them out opened up the possibility of freezing...I hate worrying about pipes freezing when I'm away...

Unknown

Beautiful work

I know by past experience how hard it is to get pex to look good when sweeping it down into a manifold . Ted , you must be an artiste . To protect the innocent , I cannot show how my debacle of pex piping came out .

Ed , after helping out on this amazing install in your home , are you ready for a career change ?

Joe@buderus

Thanks for sending the plan layout and talking with us on the phone. As we discussed, because the exhaust pipe runs through an "uncondition" space the potential for the condensate to freeze could happen. If another person bought the home and shut off the heat to the workshop or left the garage door open unaware of what could happen, there could be a problem.
I like Ted's idea of the by-pass. Nice and simple. Again, GREAT quality of workmanship.

RoosterBoy

Career change

I thought about it! Ted told me if I went to work for him he would make do all the nasty crawl space work because thats where he started. That and the fact he said he would have to throw fittings at me all day long when I screwed up changed my mind about the whole thing...

Seriously, Ted is a joy to work for. I watched how he interacted with his crew and I would be happy to work with him.

RoosterBoy

Joe-heard anything from Germany on when we might see a digital remote control/indoor sensor? I heard the introduction of the GB boiler here would bring that with it?

Joe@buderus

The current time frame is late 2005, for bringing the upgraded RC Control for the GB142. Thanks