Ch ch ch changes

Tony_23

My question to him would be, "What's it gonna take to stay ?" Then decide if he's worth it. Maybe negotiation is possible with increases at set skill levels.

If he's worth it to someone else, he should be worth it to you. Raise your rate a couple bucks if you have to. If you think you can't or he's not worth what he wants, then let him go and start over. Maybe hire someone with experience.

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Wayco Wayne_2

Checked my E-mail this morning

to find a message from my local ACCA chapter. They list workers looking for work. It's a nice service. Imagine my surprise when I saw among the listings my helper who I've been training and sending to school for 2 years. I guess he wants to move on. We'll talk this morning. If he's gone it may be a good time to assess things for myself. I could always hire another helper, and that's an option, but it may be time to look around and maybe go to work for someone else. I'm good at design and controls and have even done commercial air balancing. I don't want to hump equipment anymore. I'm 51 years old. I'm still going strong but I do get tired by the end of the day. I guess I see Guys who are getting limited by age and the smart thing to do is use my brain instead of my back. I know a lot of you are in similar situations. What are some options for an old sod like me? WW

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jackchips_2

Hi Wayne,

I made the decision at 39 with the same thought you have now: "I don't want to hump equipment any more".

I went to work for a contractor as his project manager in 1985 after 13 years of full time self-employment as a small, one man shop plumbing company with an apprentice now and then. The housing market stopped in early '86 (sound familiar?) so the owner and I parted company.

That started a few years working for an engineering company doing plumbing design which I enjoyed but that owner changed direction to architectual and we lost a lot of our accounts.

I ended up back at the original Plumbing company and have been here for fourteen years as an estimator working for the original owners son. It is an excellent company and it has been a good ride.

As for your situation, I would suggest you contact some engineering firms or general contractors as more and more companies are hiring experienced people like you to do mechanical management of their projects.

I bet Brad can expand on this further but it has become a profession that needs experienced people.

It's a tough decision you have but I wanted you to hear that there is life after self-employment.

All the best,

Jack

Brad White_9

Career Advice?

Jack- Thanks for thinking of me as any kind of resource..

Wayne- You may to too young for this! Seriously, I have a talk with my boss now and again about long term needs in our MEP/FP design firm which goes to illustrating this. One thing that always seems to fall through the cracks (critical but no one seems to have the time!) is QA/QC.

That is a part of what I do, in addition to design, I also trouble-shoot the occassional problems that arise. Not just our own but direct for owners on existing conditions. But as you can imagine, problems are a lot cheaper to solve on paper before they get built.

Anyway, my boss, Mike, said that the ideal person would be someone in their late 50's, early 60's. Experience, a good head, good eye and independent, to take sets of drawings and review them thoroughly at fixed points in design. Catch things early. Now, I am 48 hard to believe, but too young to stay in doing that kind of work if that is all I was doing.

So let's see if we cannot find a compromise:

You seem to like variety, getting out of the office, so what I would consider as a nice niche for you is to work for a consulting engineer or A/E firm in the Construction Administration (CA) department. Our best CA guys have been contractors, know the tricks, the lingo, when to be fair and when to cut through the fertilizer.

Your experience in design I do not know, but what you have built I can only imagine that you were the de-facto engineer. You know the codes, so your design or at least review skills should be way above par.

I would certainly keep up your plumbing /gas fitting / contractor license and take on side jobs scaled back to your knees, back and shoulders (you are still too young!)


Another suggetstion: Similar postition as a free-lance owner's representative or mechanical coordinator for developers, owners, institutions.

Just some random ideas. Jack- anything to add? Please do!

Best,
Brad

Weezbo

transition.....

WW you have done so many aspects of the trades over the years,you probably would not be habby stuck in an office.

With nearly every fire,safety,mechanical,plumbing,wiring ,ubc nec code change you re read the books, you could always be a leeds building or energy building inspector/hydronic consultant. still independent still in the work, able to guide some of the work with qualitative suggestion....maybe a part time teaching connection at the local trade school or community college at night,guest speaker for hydronic heating classes for one or more of the manufacturers of equipment you are familiar with and would recommend, there are many aspects to our work that experience and consideration are still valuable in shaping the future Wet heads...

Wayco Wayne_2

Thanks for the replys

I have been teaching at night but money for that is not so good. I have been asked to put together a seminar for basic hydronics by some groups who are seeing the growing trend for this in the area. It's a question of time. Basically I love what I do, designing and installing hvac systems, but hate being an employee. Competition is fierce around here for workers. Maybe I just need to find the right helper. (to dream the impossible dream.....). Maybe I could design systems for a supply house. Brad, I'm really not familiar with tht Architechs and mech engineers circles and ways of doing things. I would guess they would need field engineers and all. Maybe my experience would be valuble to someone, but where to look and how to make the connection. Maybe I could be a professonal complainer. (You think you got problems, take a look at these bunions...) WW

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Darin Cook_2

Wayne

Sometimes it seems to me that it would be great, if somehow we could form a floating labor pool out of some of us on the Wall. The excellence of craftsmanship that could go in would be mind boggling. Food for thought!


Darin

Brad White_9

Engineers and Architects

are people too

Seriously, your experience is extremely marketable. Start by asking around your professional associations, certainly some jobs you work on have design professionals associated with them. We hired one of our CA guys who was the Clerk of the Works on a public job we designed, and he was a contractor before then.

The A & E way of doing things matters not; their professional design work requires in most jurisdictions and by condition of their professional liability/errors and omissions insurance, to exercise due diligence and perform construction observation services. Eat what you cook so to speak. Sometimes CA is a loss leader (a must do overhead position) but if you are a free-lancer with a good rapport and eye for detail, a dispute resolver, I think you will shine.

I can check for any contacts in the DC area if you like. Your state board of engineers or better yet the private society of engineers (ASPE is one) can be a good place to start.

Ragu_4

Wayne...

I can relate to what you are saying. I'm 53 and this is my last good shot at it.

It seems to me that something in the wholesaler/rep agency/manufacturer world might fit the bill. They all need our experience, maturity and work ethic. It also seems to me that they are compensated better than we compensate ourselves.

Mr. Amir of Slant Fin has posted several job offers here of late, and I've begun to think: "What if...?"

Tom_35

And it's going to keep on changing---

Wayne,

It's sad, but true. We train guys from scratch, get them to where they are finally making us money---and they leave. Just today, I was told that one of our techs is taking a job with Carrier Commercial division, which is union. Obviously, his hourly wage is going to be higher, but the total benefit package is pretty close.

We would have been willing to discuss some of the facts, but he is convinced that it is a big step up. The small businesses are really going to be pressed to compete as time goes on. Health insurance is one of our biggest challenges in attracting/keeping good help. The large manufacturers/companies/franchises are dealing with thousands of employees and therefore can get health insurance much, much cheaper. We have less than 20 people in our company and a health plan for the employee and his family can easily hit $800-$900 month. Some companies have HMO's and are paying 1/4 of that amount.

We pay the highest wages in our town for HVAC contractors, and have excellent benefits as well. Still, we struggle in keeping techs for a really long time like we used to be able to do. We have 1 man that we hired out of tech school that has been with us 27 years, one for 23 years, and then it falls off the table to 3-4 years.

Don't know what it's going to take, but finding good help, training them, and keeping them is always going to be a problem.

Tom Atchley

Wayco Wayne_2

Darin

I've had the same thoughts. If only I didnt have these darn kids and stuff. What was I thinking? (just kidding of course. My family is what keeps me going) If I wasnt responsible for things, I could travel and work a little for everyone. How cool would that be? I have told Mark that where you guys live is one of the most beautiful places in the country. Could you imagine going out to work for ME in Colorado, and then jump up to Alaska to work for Pat Clark. I live within an hour of Dan Foley. Wouldnt I love to work on some of his jobs for a while? Some of his designs are very choice indeed. So many hydronics, so little time. WW

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Wayco Wayne_2

Ragu

I am with you brother. I even looked up his location on mapquest. A better location would help. Not sure I would want to move there. I'm a country boy at heart. WW

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Wayco Wayne_2

Yes

I have trained this fellow personally and he is leaving me at the worst possible time. I am up at 2 in the morning because I cant sleep, wondering how I'm going to get all my jobs done. Can't blame him though. He is only looking out for number uno. A little appreceiation for what I've done for him would be nice though. WW

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Cosmo_3

Sometimes I wonder myself

I am 33, looking towards the future and wondering if I should be making any changes myself

I love my work, and have always believed that I was on the right track. just hard to see some people around me doing (seemingly) better and working a lot less to boot.

But I still get up early in the morning and look forward to the challenge of the next day so.......... I guess I will keep going, and try to see the opportunities so I can benefit from them.

This thread has really pounded home for me the fact that this business is not always sunflowers and rose petals....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here pal, hope things work out OK


Cosmo Valavanis

Jerry_15

Wayne, I feel your pain. (ooh, I'll pay for that one), but I was sometimes poorly treated for the few years I had to work for others. Salary raise, sales commissions, profit sharing, benefits, are all powerful incentives, but sometimes it's personal, not just about a paycheck. I agree with Tony; match their offer, but first try to find out what the REAL reason is; and realize that some things can't be fixed. I prefer to work for an sob: me.

Wayco Wayne_2

Thanks for your replys

He gave his 2 weeks last friday. I made no attempt to retain him. He has not been progressing technically and I have been rescueing him from his mistakes far too frequently. He was ususally late to work and had other defficiencies that I have been overlooking because I thought at least there was some loyalty there, and hope springs eternal.:) Now that I see there is not, he is welcome to go, and I feel like a shmuck for putting up with so much. I have contacted a few people but am not going to jump into anything too quickly. I don't like living in the valley of indecision but it is a valuble time to stop and look around before continiumg to do the same old thing with a new supporting staff, or maybe find something new. I could be a sales engineer. I'm already doing that, I'm just the one installing it too. (I love that part too, but I don't want to abuse my body, I watched some of my Uncles who were dairy farmers, work themselves into the ground as they got older) WW

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