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Watch your material costs for bidding (GrandPAH)

Steamhead (in transit)
Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
in THE MAIN WALL
conferring with an inside salesman. He tells me a fax arrived announcing a 3% increase in copper prices. About thirty minutes later, another fax arrived announcing another 3% increase! Not sure if they got any more increases today.

Reminds me of those gas stations with $5/gallon prices right after Katrina.

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Comments

  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    Yikes!

    Copper took one heck of a jump today: $4.00 per foot for 2" type-L!!!

    It's been jumping all over the place, but that's a jump that could zing you if you're locked in on bids.

    Be careful out there.

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  • John Starcher_4
    John Starcher_4 Member Posts: 794
    Wire, also, Dave.

    Got a bulletin from my supplier - copper wire prices are going through the roof as well.

    They are projecting that this will last for two to ten years!!

    Starch
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,337
    It has

    been a huge problem for quite a while Dave.

    I am currently bidding a project with just under 21,000 feet of 1/2" copper that has a completion date of May, 2008. The problem has been compounded lately as owners are adding non-escallating clauses in the bid packages.

    As an estimator it's going to be a fun summer.

    Jack
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
    We currently have a school out to bid

    in Cambridge, major piping replacement, 10 inch and down. Package is broken down into two phases; only so much a crew can do over a summer. Buy-Out time is going to be fun on this one... storage will be at a premium. My guess is they buy the stock now and store it in the school. With an armed guard.
  • bob elmore
    bob elmore Member Posts: 41
    copper

    we are a wholesaler in central illinois. our copper mill
    sent e-mail this a.m. they will no longer give us any cost.
    we get a fax from mill the day our oeder ships!!!
  • Bob Forand
    Bob Forand Member Posts: 305
    Copper

    I heard rumor that rationing copper to suppliers will soon come into play. What is ironic about this is that about 5 years ago or so if my memory serves, pex owned a very small portion of the market and the copper distributors all said people won't trust pex. WOW ! Could anyone have been more wrong ?
  • maine rick
    maine rick Member Posts: 107
    copper

    I just went and looked at a house today thats been boarded up sence november. someone went in and stipped out all the copper in the basement. even cut a 2" copper drain pipe as well. they want to replace with pex.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Now add in


    $3+/gallon for gas.

    Even "free delivery" is going the way of the dinosaur.

    Gonna' be an interesting summer indeed!

    Mark H

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  • joel_19
    joel_19 Member Posts: 931
    ouch

    44 afoot for 2" L aint bad we just payed 35$ for 10ft of 11/4 m! . Now what,I didn't buy copper a couple weeks ago so shoukd we buy 10-20k worth tomorrow or do you think it will come down in another month . last fall i filled my oil tank a month after Katrina at the worst time
  • m_5
    m_5 Member Posts: 1
    i just got a

    quote for 4" L, $40/ft. 5 weeks ago it was $25/ft. reminds me of what was happening to cold rolled sheet steel 2 years ago. the price changed everyday and noone guaranteed pricing.
  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    Here too

    Copper jumped 21% the week before last and 10% last week, same with building wire. A piece of 3/4 L is now costing aver $1.25/ft. At least we plumbing/heating guys can switch to pex for a lot of it. The "sparky's are pretty well stuck because I don't think pex will conduct electricity. :)
  • GaryDidier
    GaryDidier Member Posts: 229
    copper

    Hi,


    I just paid almost $80 for a 10 foot length of 2" m. A 3" male adapter was $56. I about had appoplexy but an emergency room visit would be $1500.00 so I didnt.

    Gary from Granville
  • SVDW
    SVDW Member Posts: 80
    copper pricing

    Here's a link to a Wholesale Digest article you all might find interesting. http://www.asa.net/docs/MMD/MMDExtra42006.pdf
    Landslides in Bolivia? Mine strikes in Mexico? I don't blame Contractors when they tell me I'm full of it about the latest price increases. We got the same message from our copper suppliers as previous poster:"We'll tell you what it cost the day it ships."
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    we started

    putting price change options in our bids, but the GC's are having a fit. As a result, we've now lost several bids to other knuckle-heads who are willing to lock in pricing for - get this - six months! In two cases, I know who won the bids and neither of them stock materials or have their own storage warehouses. Live & learn!



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  • Steverino
    Steverino Member Posts: 140
    Prices have increased

    33% in the last few weeks, 40% in the last 2 months! As for rationing, that hasn't been mentioned...yet. Price quotes are good only for the day quoted. Impossible to "hold" prices for any length of time. How you fine gentlemen can quote any future jobs that involve copper...you deserve an A+ in my book!
  • JK_3
    JK_3 Member Posts: 240
    2 weeks

    So far what I have been doing is allowing Quotes a 2 week shelf life. My suppliers usually notify us at least 2 weeks in advance of any increase. I note in the quote that the price is only good for 2 weeks and that if the contract is signed and deposit paid we can hold the job for longer. As soon as I have a signed contract and deposit I purchase the materials with fluxuating prices. I also have one supplier that will take large orders from me at today's prices and not bill untill I accept delivery which might not be for 30 or 60 days but I've never asked them to hold any longer than that.

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  • joel_19
    joel_19 Member Posts: 931
    problem

    Our problem isn't holding the quote for say 3 weeks it's the fact that i might not start the job for 6 months! then what are you supposed to do?
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
    That's an everyday problem

    That is the reason why on some of these jobs we have to ask for money upfront, buy the material that might skyrocket and hold on to it until the job is ready. It means having some money saved up to use as working capital. I don't think it is the best arrangement either, but what else can you do?


    Cosmo Valavanis
  • John R. Hall
    John R. Hall Member Posts: 2,245
    Copper theft

    I've read stories about copper being ripped off from rooftop air handlers in two different communities. Do you think these thieves turn around and sell the loot to legit HVAC contractors? Or are they just selling it for drug money to the junkyards? Methinks the second option is more correct but I wouldn't be shocked if the first was done in a few places.
  • leo g_13
    leo g_13 Member Posts: 435
    Yes Cosmo

    we ask for a downpayment as a matter of business, but more so now, if any quantity of copper is involved!

    Leo G

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  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,399
    COPPER PRICING

    When we quote copper, it's the price we give at that moment. We cannot hold it. I can tell you our PEX sales are through the roof. Copper is giving a lot of our commercial customers big problems. Please double check pricing before you quote...

    Rick
  • Reed
    Reed Member Posts: 56
    I am not the biggest customer

    in the main supply house that I use and definitly not the smallest and my price for 3/4 L is $2.54ft compared to last year this time was if I remember correctly $0.97.
  • John White
    John White Member Posts: 120
    Material costs

    This is a very interesting string.
    I just wanted to weigh in honestly and point out the commonalities and difficulties experienced by the manufacturing community. I can tell you that steel has gone up over 100%, copper and brass astronomically as well over the past 18 months or so.
    We have tried to be aggressive to protect ourselves. It only makes good business sense. For those of us who are serious about continuing to supply top quality products AND continue to introduce new products for YOUR market, it is important to be bold and aggressive. It is an interesting time to be running a business.
    The Wall is a great tool, Dan, for all of us to openly communicate about issues that are important to us every day. It's the first place I go each morning and the last place I go each night, with about a dozen stops throughout the day. I have picked up so much from all of you, and have tried to act on anything I feel needs acting on, so to speak.
    Dan, thanks for a great service and vehical, and thanks to everyone for candor and honesty. You make it fun to come to work.
    As we now say at Taco,
    "It's All About You"
    Johnny White
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    I received a letter...........

    .........today from a wholesaler stating that any copper bid today will only be valid till the end of the day. My contracts will now read same. Like we don't have enough stress trying to make a profit, eh?

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  • John R. Hall
    John R. Hall Member Posts: 2,245
    Johnny

    You and I have a have a beer together someday. I like the way you think.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,600
    \"It's all about you.\"

    Best business philosophy I can think of. Well done. Thanks, Johnny.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    They don't come any better

    than JHW IMHO. I'll buy that first round John and it would be an honor to sit with you all.



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  • Joe Mattiello_2
    Joe Mattiello_2 Member Posts: 94


    It’s interesting because Johnny’s philosophy is to take care of his employee’s first, knowing if his employee’s are happy to come to work everyday, everything else will follow. The “it’s all about you” campaign is Johnny at his best. Thanks Johnny

    Joe Mattiello
    Technical Support Technician
    Tel. 401-942-8000 X 484
    Fax. 401-942-2360
    1160 Cranston St
    Cranston, RI 02920
    joemat@taco-hvac.com
  • Robert O'Connor_8
    Robert O'Connor_8 Member Posts: 53
    thanks Mr. White

    for being one of us.

    All the best,

    Robert

    ME
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