The Home Power Revolution

bob_44

what ever happened to the York Triathlon it was 130% efficient in heating mode, 110% in cooling had a little Briggs& Straton in it. This thing was developed by GWB's buddies at Battelle. I think I remember an attempt by Fiat back in the 60's for a total energy set-up. bob

joel_19

The Home Power Revolution

Check out www.climate-energy.com later today. For a heads up peak check out www.Bostonglobe.com and the buisness section today.
Boucher Energy is very pleased to see this technology brought to , and adapted for the U.S market by Climate Energy . We are proud to be associated with such a progressive firm and will be working closely with Climate Energy to bring this technology to our locale home owner and buisness customers as rapidly as possable.

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Constantin

A silly question...if I may...

What fundamentally distinguishes this unit from the Marathon co-gen unit besides the manufacturer? Is this the highest attainable efficiency? Or is it the very low noise emissions, the big name behind it, etc?

Also, will they make the Micro generator available as a standalone, as some of us recently purchased boilers and don't quite see the need to replace them with a model from ECR just yet...

joel_19

CHP

Constantine in regards to your questions. Yes , yes, yes yes and yes,. The first goal is the combined unit for what they percieve is the biggest market. I have really tried to encourage them towards the hydronic end by selling the unit stand alone and allowing us to simply integrate it into a hydronic system. Interestingly this is how it is sold in Japan as thier is no warm air there. They are working towards a module in a box like to tie to hydronics. I sense resistance to allow us to simply plug it in on our own to a hydronic system. That is a bummer because I'm confident that I could make it work on an exsisting hydronic system by like tommorrow lunch time at the latest, maybe in time for coffe break. They want it to be as plug and play as possable . I believe to reduce the amount of problems created by the Bubbas of our trade. Probably a good idea on thier part in the grand scheme , but addmitingly frustrating to those of us wanting to get our hands on it and get wiring , piping and playing with it NOW.
They think that the hot air maket is big and that's true . They also think that it will be initially for very progressive home owners interested in green technology and higher end stuff , also true. However what i keep trying to tell them is that type of homeowner who would be most interested and willing to shell out the money is also the same person who would never live in a hot air house!!
I'm really shocked this thread didn't generate more interest here today. This is a huge development , right up there with things like the first modern reliable Radiant systems and the First reliable quality weather rseponsive modulating gas boiler ie: Vitodens.

ed wallace

home power units

I read the article in the globe today my question is how noisy is it seems to me i saw the same thing about 10 yrs ago but it was no2 oil fired

Constantin

The online site claims 44db...

... which is quieter than many heating systems.

Harold

Efficiency?

Given the efficiency numbers (85% combined on generator vs 98% for a good condensing boiler), unless your return for selling electricity exceeds your marginal increase in the cost of fuel, it does not appear to be a particularly effective way of heating the house. I don't have the numbers. When on engine only, it is similar in efficiency to the old boilers that are being replaced by condensing units. Propane would be good and probably pretty easy to do. I would think more rural areas would like the backup power feature; presuming the power is out when they need heat or have an alternate way of dummping it. I am on propane and am using an Ultra and a generator. When I need standby power I need more than this unit can produce and it may well be cheaper to throw the generator heat away when power is out. With a water cooled backup generator (read significantly more expensive), and sufficient temperature drop across the load to keep the engine cool, one could capture a lot of the generator heat with a little work.

This new co-generator would be enough to keep you whole heating system and some lights running with nothing but gas available. Depending on the economics this would be a nice solution for things like northeast ice storms.

The conversion efficiency for electricity may be better than central generation in terms of overall energy use. But is it cheaper for the end user buying fuel at retail. Green is good, but I suspect far more people buy a furnace based on purchase price, maintenance, relaibility, and operating costs. The average consumer, without input from you guys, probably looks only at equipment price and operating cost.

It would be interesting to see some return-on-investment and actual operating costs/revenues vs alternatives.

Larry Weingarten

Here's a rudimentary...

version of micro co-gen. It captures the exhaust heat from a surplus generator, putting it into storage, while charging a 24 volt battery bank. Crude, but effective!

Yours, Larry

Larry Weingarten

Here is a crude...

but effective version of micro co-gen. It uses a surplus generator to charge a 24 volt battery bank while exhaust heat is put into solar storage. That drives a radiant system.

Yours, Larry

Mitch_4

The furnace

the furnace listed is te Olsen GTH 95% efficient condensing furnace. I service a couple hundred Olsens a year, and its my prefered for installations, their factory is in SW Ontario. Great unit, simple, easy to service. I like em.

I hope they bring this to Canada soon, I want to see what they did to it.

Noel Kelly

Climate Energy Micro CHP

Gentlemen.



Great to see your interest in Climate Energy’s Micro CHP. We anticipate a lot of questions and hopefully a lot of them will be answered on our website http://www.climateenergy.com



Hope you enjoyed the day Joel – I know that we were overwhelmed by the response and expect to be very busy fielding enquiries in the aftermath.

Let me emphasize at this point that Climate Energy Micro CHP systems will not be commercially available until the latter part of 2006. This coming season will be devoted to field trials and gathering pertinent data.

A little background if I may. Honda introduced their cogeneration unit to the Japanese market less than two years ago. In that time they have exceeded all of their expectations with regard to sales with 15,000 sold to date. It is part of a system designed by Osaka gas which is hydronic based. The cogeneration units are not available as a separate component. Honda recognizes the inherent difficulties of integrating their technology with heating appliances and have been very careful about whom to entrust with this task.

The Honda MCHP is a very sophisticated combination of tried and true technology. Climate Energy’s role is to marry that sophistication to currently available HVAC appliances be they fwa or hydronic, a version of which is in development.

Unlike a conventional standby generator, the Honda MCHP is designed to run for a minimum of 20,000 hours before major service, which is the equivalent of an automobile racking up over 2 million miles?

I would really encourage those of with questions to visit our web site as we have attempted to answer them all there. I would also like to extend an invitation to any of you that would be interested in viewing the system in operation. We are located in Medfield, MA and love to have visitors. You can contact me at Kelly @yankeescientific.coml.

Noel Kelly

Climate Energy Micro CHP

Gentlemen.



Great to see your interest in Climate Energy’s Micro CHP. We anticipate a lot of questions and hopefully a lot of them will be answered on our website http://www.climateenergy.com



Hope you enjoyed the day Joel – I know that we were overwhelmed by the response and expect to be very busy fielding enquiries in the aftermath.

Let me emphasize at this point that Climate Energy Micro CHP systems will not be commercially available until the latter part of 2006. This coming season will be devoted to field trials and gathering pertinent data.

A little background if I may. Honda introduced their cogeneration unit to the Japanese market less than two years ago. In that time they have exceeded all of their expectations with regard to sales with 15,000 sold to date. It is part of a system designed by Osaka gas which is hydronic based. The cogeneration units are not available as a separate component. Honda recognizes the inherent difficulties of integrating their technology with heating appliances and have been very careful about whom to entrust with this task.

The Honda MCHP is a very sophisticated combination of tried and true technology. Climate Energy’s role is to marry that sophistication to currently available HVAC appliances be they fwa or hydronic, a version of which is in development.

Unlike a conventional standby generator, the Honda MCHP is designed to run for a minimum of 20,000 hours before major service, which is the equivalent of an automobile racking up over 2 million miles?

I would really encourage those of with questions to visit our web site as we have attempted to answer them all there. I would also like to extend an invitation to any of you that would be interested in viewing the system in operation. We are located in Medfield, MA and love to have visitors. You can contact me at Kelly @yankeescientific.coml.

Noel Kelly

Constantin

Thanks for the Info... I guess the Marathon is better...

Honda is playing catch-up then, considering that the Marathon CHP is already on the market and is not tied into bundle deals with other heating systems. The TBO is also 40,000hrs with simple PM at 4,000hr intervals. The only plus to the Honda system seems to be a 12db quieter rating.

The Honda system output also appears to be fixed, while the Marathon can deliver a wider range of output (2-4.7kW electrical, 6-12.5kW heat). Thus, the Marathon unit might be a better unit, as it can act as a standby generator in ways that the Honda cannot and "modulate" its output to suit the needs of the house instead of being a simple "on-off" system as it appears to be described on the web-site. Perhaps the Honda is more sophisticated than it lets on...

So, as neat as it is to see Climate Energy and others jump into the fray, Marathon Engines seems to have put their stake into the ground first, and with a non-bundled, hydronic-friendly product to boot. Unless there are good reasons to wait for the Honda roll-out, I'd jump on the Marathon bandwagon.

Jon_2

York Units

The Local gas company built a new state of the art building using 12 of these units. Building is located in Northern NY, along the St.Law. river. A/C was OK but the heating end just didn't cut it. All were scrapped and a boiler and hyronics were installed. Existing ductwork was used for new DX evaporator. Maintance on the York units were not a factor.

joel_19

Constantine

Noel did a far better job than I at answering your questions. In my excitement over Climate - Energy binging this technology forth in such a well engineered well built package my mind jumped through on hyper drive leaving out all the important details and going directly to where I'd love to see the technology go. Since it is so critically needed on a variety of levels as we have so far to go in reducing the energy consumption of most homes. I was awake in bed last night drawing piping and wiring layouts in my head on the bedroom cieling. I need to put an erasable white board up there on the ceiling and keep some markers handy.
Climate-Energy has spent a very considerable amount of time and resources to bring this together in a package that is very well thought out and integrated together.
The integration of the technolgy by Climate-Energy is extreemly critical to have a unit that runs seemlessly with the furnace. This is really huge in that the work they've done in my mind is kind of the missing link to bring together all the concepts that others have kicked around for so long in a way that is very practicle on lots of levels. Of course being a somewhat crazed mad scientist type I'd love to have one to play with right now and plug into a hydronic system tomorrow and tinker with it. I can't comment on the Marathon unit other than what i read about it. I was fortunate enough to have seen the Climate Energy system up close and it is very well packaged as far as how the jacket and furnace goes together with the electronics and Honda power unit , very nice looking and it ran beautifully in the demo trailer . Someone asked about the noise level it is extreemly quiet i'd liken it to a refridgerator maybe but no louder than that.

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Mitch_4

another article

http://uaelp.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?ARTICLE_ID=226302&p=22