What heating system to choose

Vince_7

We are building in NJ (07045), and we need advice on the best heating system to install, especially with the rising costs of energy. Each contractor we asked has a different opinion: Radiant, Hydronic, conventional...We feel that some contractors are quoting just what they know, and are comfortable with. Is there a consultant we can engage to assist in the decision? Someone who does not have a bias, and will give us an objective opinion??
Thank you!!

Brad White_60

Hydronic, low temperature

is hard to beat for economy, precision of delivery and the ultimate goal, comfort.

With this are radiant floors (the floors are the radiators, large hence can use cooler water). This is generally agreed to be the most comfortable if properly done .

Because the water temperatures are low (110-120 can be "high") the efficiency of condensing boilers is best utilized.

The best system, bar none, in my personal opinion (I design not install and have no stake in the matter) is a radiant floor heated home fired by as high an efficiency boiler as I could find. For me, the best boilers made are Viessmann and all high-end homes I design have them as a basis of design. This is not to say that there are not less expensive boilers that will also do very well, but you asked which was "best", so that is my opinion.

Maurice

Best Boiler

Before you say that Viessmann is the best, check out the Eco Term in the new Radiant Living Magazine or their website www.elitetankless.com. It is a lot better equipped and easier to install than the Viessmann (vent pipe - and has two built in pumps).

GMcD

Best heating system

Is the one that doesn't require energy to operate: the building envelope- really good windows, minimized thermal bridging at the exterior walls and roof, minimized infiltration, etc. Take the $$ for the mech system and put it into passive things that prevent heat losses and heat gains FIRST, then decide on the home comfort system.

S Ebels

I'll refrain from judgement

Until I see one. The type and construction of the HX makes a big difference to me......and my customers in the long run. Matrix type burner producing <10ppm CO?, control logic...... all of those things enter into what makes the Viessmann #1.

A Kia and a Lexus will both do 100mph, have four tires, A/C and cruise control but they are not really equivalent. Same deal with the boilers.

Maurice

S. Ebels

The Eco Term has the same HX and Controle Board as the Veissmann. It is better built and there is no need for a three-way valve. It has 2 built-in stainless steel Grundfos Pumps and 2" ABS capability. It can be compared to the Rolls Royce and the Lexus.

Constantin

Allow me to disagree...

I downloaded the specs for the Ecoterm Plus and see nothing from Viessmann in there. The HX looks to be from the same French company that supplies NY Thermal and HTP. The 5-1 turndown ratio points to a Dungs valve, same as NYT and HTP. Building a combo boiler using parts from around the world is nothing new, but it doesn't make it a Viessmann.

That is not to say that Viessmann's products do not have performance improvement potential. Almost everything does... Nor would I claim that Viessmann's products represent the pinnacle of engineering, design, efficiency, etc. in all of the many product categories they compete in, because they probably do not (I wouldn't know).

However, I would refrain from making casual comparisons between the products from competing manufacturers, even if they use similar core technologies, as packaging, assembly, programming, etc. can make all the difference in the world between units. Never mind the even bigger impact that a proper vs. an improper install has.

CC.Rob

Fairly educated homeowner in agreement with this -- attend to the envelope as it makes a huge difference. We just completed a modest addition that used some moderate improvements in construction techniques over the existing house, and has way better windows, but nothing truly custom. The difference in building performance is astounding. Same with two rooms where all we did was swap out and/or add a window, redoing stud configs and wall insulation as well. Modern windows and modern insulation techniques resulted in huge improvements in heat loss, comfort, etc. Point being you don't have to go nuts with construction techniques to realize some really good envelope improvements. Once you have a good envelope, then you have an excellent starting point for designing the heating/comfort system.

Also in agreement with Brad and other's opinions about radiant. I grew up in a radiant house and everything since has been a distant second.

Having spent three years now making up for poor heating system decisions, I can safely say it's well worth it to spend the money up front for a quality install. If you plan on staying in the home for any length of time, then you might also consider doing a combo conventional/solar integrated system. The cost savings over the long haul should be well worth it given the likely trends in energy prices. A number of the pros here are in your area, I believe, and would be the first people to talk with.

Good luck.

GMcD

Beauty!

Good to hear from an actual example. Maybe it's just me, but the more I read about "homeowner heating systems gone bad", most of the root cause can be traced back to allowing the Contractor to build the house envelope "conventionally" and then trying to apply a heating system later on. Conventional heating systems are calculated and selected for making up for the heat lost through the envelope, and oh, by the way, try to do some human comfort on the way by. It's a "reactive" methodology. We have to change the industry to a "pro-active" methodology and reduce the heat losses (and heat gains) in the first place, so a real human comfort system can be designed.

S Ebels

Looks like

The same company makes the HX for Munchkin, Knight, Trinity etc. Gionanni I think from France. Not a bad piece but definitely not in the same league as a Viessmann. The gauge of metal used is about half and it's a different alloy IIRC. As for the control on the Viessmann, it's a proprietary piece that they designed and make themselves. I'm not aware that they sell it to any other manufacturer.
But hey, I've been wrong in the past..........

Ask the Ecoterm salesman to see a cross sectional sample of their HX and then do the same with a Viessmann rep. I think you'll see very quickly what I'm talking about.