Drug Screening

Mason

Invasion of your privacy, how about only logical if I am the one who has to pay to insure you as you wear my company uniform, drive my company truck and work in my clients homes. what do you have to lose versus what I have on the line???

Mason


<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=161&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

Mason

Has anyone tried this one

Has anyone included in their "employment agreement" type stuff a clause about the pre-employment drug screening and physical exams that states if they do not pass the drug screening they will have to pay for it?

Mason


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

clammy

yes

yes heard of it signed it once or twice didn't have a promblem with it even though i think it a envasion of a person privacy

Brad White_9

Interesting tack....

So, you are not hired but have to pay for the test that you failed?

Presumption is you are not currently employed... so pay them how?

I suppose in a free market you can negotiate anything. Or take exception to it and not get the job.

But my biggest concern? Seriously? Eating a poppy-seed bagel and testing positive for opium metabolites. Getting black-listed as a junkie for having for bagels and lox.

Not an urban myth as some have said.

Mason

Hmm

Well the idea was that if you knew you were hot, you wouldn't waste my $75-100 for the test..............

If you are not smart enough to know you are going to be hot the last thing I want is a "not so smart" person who has a hot test..................................................

Mason


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ericjeeper

here I get paid 25 dollars everytime I pass a random


The carpenters local here in Indianapolis has a program where you can be selected by random twice a year. If you pass they send you 25 dollar check..
For me it will never be an issue of pass fail.
I never eat any lemon poppyseed, cakes or muffins.. Knowing that I could get snagged for a cake..Not worth my career. So maybe the Employer should offer something for the Clean employees.. Basically using up my time going to the office for the test.. Just my 2 cents.

Mitch_6

Mixed feelings

I would not want to stand in front of some one and piss into a cup. I like to say that I like to be treated same as my employees. I do not like the idea of guilt until proven innocent.

Have had employees that have had issues some may have not passed the test, some had issues and still would.

Tough one don't have it as policy yet.

Mitch S.

Robert O'Connor_12

Mason

I like the way you think but no, you cannot legally make them pay for something you are mandating. There was a case about a similar situation years ago where the person passed the drug test but failed the physical (blood test) and to find out the person being tested had a fatal illness. You can't make them pay.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

jackchips_2

It's coming

Mitch.

Here in Mass most public projects with State money involved are now requiring testing of all employees who will go on site.

Just last week on a private site we were advised that everyone who wanted to enter the site would be required to be tested--everyone.

I am speaking about larger projects, not small residential or commercial but it may not be long before it is required everwhere.

As for having new employees pay if they fail, interesting topic and I'll let owners offer their take.

Jack

Marty

good first impression

Seeing something as mickey mouse as that on an application or brought up in an interview would raise all sorts of red flags about the company. sorry if thats too blunt but I am no whiz at sugarcoating things, Think about it... gee this place wants me to pay for a drug test if I flunk it and don't get hired anyway wonder what other surprises I am in for????

mark smith

ya know ..

i belive in personal integrity

but seeing the staggering number of people that fail a drug test where my wife works

well, it sure would leave me concerned if i was a large contractor ....

Maine Ken

You cannot test positive for opiates from poppy seed bagels. Its an urban legend.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Greig

Drug testing is a bust if it dosen't show booz. More damage is done by a drunk that someone who smoked pot a few days back. Drug usage can show up on a screening for up to 30 days. The person might not of use any in the past few weeks or days and fail. But you can get totaled drunk the night before and pass the test. How much loss productive and injurys are caused by someone who has a hangover. I bet alot!

Dave DeFord_2

Why do they ask on the form?

> You cannot test positive for opiates from poppy

> seed bagels. Its an urban legend.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 346&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

mark smith

post your facts to back that up , please ......

saaay , by the way ... isn't pot ...Illegal ...???

Dave DeFord_2

Why do they ask on the form?

Last time I took a drug test the form asked if I had eaten any poppy seeds within a certain period of time (I think 24-48 hours). They wouldn't ask if it didn't matter and snopes.com disagrees with you on this one.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp


Just as important, a drug user can fool a drug screen to a false negative. Golden seal will produce a false negative for marijuana use and there are other ways to beat other drugs. Look around at some of the ads in the back of magazines. I'm not condoning drug use I'm just saying that the test are far from foolproof.

Maine Ken

Mark Hunt

Maybe


it was the lox after all!!

Sad but true folks. I won't hire a pot-head. None of my business what he/she does on "their own time", but I installed for a LOOOOOONG time. I've seen what happens.

I think Mason has a heck of an idea. Pee or flee.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Boiler Guy

Test and pay

It is done all the time to truck drivers. All new potential hires must test before being dispatched. If hired, a lot of Companies will take it off the first cheque. After 90 days some will give it back, others you have to fight for it. If you random test positive you pay and lose your job instantly. PERIOD!
The logic is ... A lot of time, effort and finances go into recruiting. Many organizations pay drivers to attend the Company orientation where all the rules are explained. Testing is done either during or after orientation and definitely before being put to work. If you fail ... you pay.

THe way I see it .... If someone is seriously looking for a job, has been told what the policy is and still tests positive ... they should be responsible for the cost.

Just my 2c

Darin(in Michigan)

Gentlemans wager?

Set a wager the interviewee will fail for the amount of the drug test. If he doesn't take the bet he is a user or is teeetering on the edge. If he fails, your not out anything. If he passes the test, you win. Either way you will probably get some interesting looks.

Weezbo

nope.

to me, if my company policy was no drugs no alcohol and i required a screen for these substances in order to make my determination to hire someone or not ,i would think as it was relavent to me it would be something that i would pay . if the person tested positive or negative or whatever the cirterion happened to be ,that too, would be my information ,if someone said "Hey before i go to work for you i got to see some drug analyisis of you this very momment and if you fail you owe me"...id tell the jerk to take a hike. same way around think about it. i dont have time to waste as it is, much less burning daylight at the dr.s office just to please some jerks curiosity. i would probably suggest something else that wouldnt bear repeating, yet, here goes..."IF you want to look for something You Say is here under my roof ,You take all the time you want,.. buh when you dont find what you are looking for Buddy,You got to come back out this door and if it aint in your hands ,You Wont be walking back out that door" That is one of my quotes. Take it to the bank .

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Gordy

Drug screening

Where I work now the procedure is to take the P test if you fail you can do a retake at your own expense. My old employer never had a drug screening program. Usually the tests have a certain exceptable level for different substances if found. I believe these levels are selected by the employer.

Drug testing is a debate as far as invasion of privacy. While drug use is illegal, so is drinking and driving. How many do that while not at work? I believe once your days work is done, your time is your time. Not your time with the company still looking over your shoulder. There is also mental stability maybe throw in a 400 question psycology test, been there done that one. 20 questions asked 20 different ways lol, thought I was at a deposition.

Gordy

Gordy

Dilution

Most drug tests now will show up inconclusive if one dilutes. This is not taken as a negative. Usually a retest is required. If one shows up inconclusive twice then they know they are trying to hide something. They are on to all the tricks.

Mason

Reason behind this train of thought

Many of you know that I am a most reasonable guy. BUT when it is my liability on the line by putting you out there working for me, there has got to be a better way. I totally agree that alcohol can create lost job time etc, but it is still legal. Illegal substances whether used two days ago or twenty days ago are still Illegal, period.

My question was put out there to get a feel for what you guys, the most knowledgable and talented in the biz have seen and what you thought.

BTW I paid my attorney about two hours of OT yesterday, so we could discuss this and he assures me that her in MI this clause is legal. It may draw attention in the hiring process. Will it bring up the "what other surprises are waiting for me" thought process? It might. I am simply trying to eliminate some of the same surprises that are waiting for me, my company, and my families future.

I don't want to seem harsh or cold, but if it comes down to whether or not I hurt your feelings by enacting this policy, or losing everything because of a substance related incident, I guess you will get over it..........

Mason

Mason

Exactly

Exactly my point. If there is a question of whether or not you are going to pass the test, you don't need to take it. You have the simple right to stand up and say, "I don't think I will pass that test"(even if you only say it to yourself) and then not waste anyones $$, or increase their exposure.

How about the other side of the Mickey Mouse coin. maybe the prospective employee will say,"Hmm, this company cares enough to try and make my work environment as safe as possible."

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad White_9

No so....

Poppy seeds, the kind you eat, have the same chemical when metablolized that are in opiate poppy material. It is an indirect test but less expansive than one that tests for specific heroin/codeine metabolites.

In Federal and at least in MA where I live, the correctional system has as a condition of parole where drug testing is mandated, that you cannot eat certain foods which may give false positives. (ie: they take away that excuse, "oh, I had a poppy bagel, it wasn't smack".

You can check it out via snopes.com.

Plumdog_2

some companies

are always searching for new help. Why is that? Other companies will almost never have an opening. Do the best employees never look for greener grass (no pun intended)?

Boiler Guy

Mason

I totally agree with you! Unfortunately substance abuse is a fact of our times (good or bad). Therefore we as employers have to protect ourselves and our customers regardless of the liability issues. If pre-employment testing and random screening help us safeguard our livelihoods and the security of our clients, the privacy issue is a non factor. I don't know about where you are, but around here more than 60% of the help wanted ads in the papers or on line have the words; "must participate in drug screening program" or something similar clearly stated.

Brad White_9

Pee or Flee?

I like that...

Better than "piss and miss", but that opens up a thread on corrision resistance of baseboard in bathrooms. Any takers?

:- ....

Boiler Guy

Greg

That is where random screening comes in. ""If you have a 'stated program' in place, you have the opportunity to enforce testing upon suspicion of non compliance"". Usually when a "selection" takes place, the "suspect" has a very limited time window to comply. Around here, failure to comply is treated the same as a positive test.

Paying an hour or two in wages is cheap compared to settling a liability suit. IMHO

Mark Hunt

Customer asked me


about that once.

I told her "Your husband sometimes misses".

Boy was he ever in trouble. I left before he got home.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad White_9

He pee

you flee!

That's how I see it...

Brad White_9

Getting in Touch with my Inner Libertarian

OK, I admit it, I am a Libertarian

(Wag's definition: "A Republican that Likes to Smoke Dope".

and have not touched anything since the teen years, BTW...

The way I see this:
Folks are free to injest what they want, but also have the obligation not to drive while doing so, put others at risk or impose any of their bad behavior on others and meet all of their responsibilities (family support not the least among them).

But an employer is also free to state conditions of employment and is free not to hire you. And the employee and employer are free to negotiate terms agreeable to both.
Sine qua non (no test, no job).

But I would submit the process has to be fair, not random but across the board.

My $0.02,

Brad

Greig

I just want to get people thinking about the dangers of alcohol at the work place the next day. Pot is legal in Alaska in your own home up to 4 ounces. Dosen't make right.

Mason

Here are just some of the things that we should all look at

The statistics from this gov't web site: http://workplace.samhsa.gov/WPResearch/BasicResearch/injurydiswkFS.html are somewhat chilling. Those numbers ought to have all of us looking at what we are proposing.

In several worksite studies, substance-abusing workers, compared with their nonabusing colleagues, are:

Five times more likely to file a worker's compensation claim;
3.6 times more likely to be involved in on-the-job accidents; and
Late for work three times as often. (2)

This is only the beginning!

Mason





To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jerry scharf_3

minor cost

Mason,

The way I see it, $75 is a very minor cost. One rule of thumb number is that a bad hire costs total to 3-6 months of their wages. Might be a little less in trades, but it still puts a number to work with. This includes the cost of the management time to deal with the poor performance, training time, the time and cost for another hiring cycle and possible problems finishing jobs on time.

You heard it here and I can echo it that it looks really cheap and it sets a red flag for a new hire. Some of the applicants may be coming from employers who were cheap b******s and are very sensative. If you lose some of the best applicants to this, it will cost you way more than $75.

Pay the $75 as a way of saying we pay for what we ask of our employees. Same with training, IMO you should pay for it. There is a silly arguement that if you train them, they will go somewhere else. If they like the training, they will stay with you because as soon as they leave, it stops. They also get to go to work every day with other well trained people, which akes the day much better.

jerry

Canasta Pete_2

Testing

I studied all night long for my drug test and still failed miserably. Just don't have book smarts I guess

Ol' Canasta

Unknown

question is, what is abusing?

if someone had a drink after dinner last night, are they alchohol abusers?

Rich_18

!

Cant we all just have a nice 'jay' :}?