Steam radiator in hot water system?

Eric Johnson

Got it hooked up on Saturday and I'm happy to report that it works. Heats up, anyway.

Thanks for all your help!

Eric Johnson_3

Steam radiator in a hot water system

I don't know if this is a common (& therefore redundant) question or not, but I have an old steam radiator (no flow at the top) that I would like to connect to my home's hot water system.

When I bought the radiator I thought steam and water-based cast iron radiators were interchangable--you just had to get a bleeder into the top of a unit set up for steam. But after I got it home, it became obvious that there is no way to vent a multi-chamber radiator with no flow through the top.

(I like screwing around with this stuff, by the way.)

Then it occurred to me that if I turned it upside down and filled it, closed the 3/4-inch ball valves on either side, flipped it back upright and connected it to the system, then vented the system to the valves and then opened them up, it would be full of water instead of air. I don't see why this wouldn't work.

The downside is that there is no way to easily and routinely vent air out of it once it's hooked up, but none of my other radiators on the first floor need venting, so why should this one? Of course, I would tag it with an explanation

My question is simply, is there anything about the type of steam radiator described that would make it unwise to fill it with water? It seems lighter than a conventional water cast-iron radiator, but that's probably because it's lacking a beefed-up flow channel on the top.

Now I know what you're thinking: "Idiot--just buy a hot water radiator." That's a good point but you know, it seems like there are old radiators all over the place until you need a specific size and shape, and then nobody's got one. Plus, I've wrestled this thing around enough to where we've developed a sort of personal relationship.

When you're done laughing, please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Eric Johnson
Clinton, NY

Ron Schroeder

It pays to get off the Wall

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Eric Johnson

One-pipe steam radiator

That was very informative. Thank you.

But I'm still confused. Now I know that I have a one-pipe steam radiator. Mine has a vent about halfway up the left chamber (or whatever one of the sections is called). I don't mind cutting and tapping a hole for a bleeder higher up, although there's no foundation cast into this radiator to accommodate it.

That aside, I still don't understand how all the chambers on this radiator can vent when the only egress for the air above the water level is blocked off by water in the pipe. Seems to me it would just compress air in all but the one chamber with the vent.

Am I missing something?

That's why I concocted the "turn it upside down and fill the radiator, close the valves and connect it to the system" strategy.

bob young

give it a shot

sometimes there is only one way to find out. try it. sometimes stuff works when it shouldn't

Eric Johnson

Thanks Bob, that's all I needed to hear. If it doesn't work out, I'll just truck on out to A-1 Used Plumbing & Heating Supplies and pay the big bucks for a two-pipe water radiator.

Actually, I don't see why this wouldn't work as long as I can keep too much air from migrating up into the radiator. As it is, my first-floor radiators all spit out water when I bleed them every fall. Upstairs, it's a whole different deal.

BTW, my local used plumbing & heating supply place in Utica, NY gets $100 each for used radiators, steam or hot water. They get even more for the short ones like I have. I gave them a call to see if they would buy this one from me (I paid $40 from a classified ad) and maybe get my money back. Turns out they pay about $10 each for used radiators. "We pay a little more than scrap prices," he said. That's $80 a ton in today's market. Guess I won't get rich buying and selling used radiators, at least not the way I've been doing it.

Timco

I have seen this pleanty here in SLC...But the steam rad was tapped on each cell and a bleeder valve added at the top...and they heat GREAT as a regular HW rad.

Tim

Eric Johnson

Low temps

I have a wood-fired boiler that sends water through a flat plate heat exchanger hooked up to an old gas-fired boiler. So the water temp to my zones tends to hover around 140. That's not enough heat for baseboard radiators to work very well at all, so I'm replacing the few baseboards I have with cast iron radiators. They work a lot better at those temps. Plus, I think they're really beautiful. It's kind of like having mini wood or coal stoves in every room.

Eric Johnson

pics, for what it's worth

In case anybody remains interested, here's two pics of the radiator in question. I read over Dan's excellent radiator primer again, and I clearly have a very old steam job. I'm still gonna do what I said, though. I'll let you know if it kicks out enough heat.

The first pic is the radiator unconnected to the system. I'm going to tear out those ugly baseboards (which don't work at all), and replace them with this rad. It's the only other radiator on that zone (kitchen), so I'm piping them in series.

http://www.nefpexpo.com/rad1.JPG

Here's a close-up shot of the top, where the second pipe should be. No airflow--just some cast iron connectors to keep the sections in place.

http://www.nefpexpo.com/rad2.JPG

Guess these links aren't live. Cut and paste the address into your naviation window if you're interested.

Steamhead (in transit)

Nice paint job, Eric

if you were near Baltimore I'd probably want to trade you. I know I could sell that rad as nice as it looks.

Seriously, your best bet is to go get a hot-water rad. That way you know it will work.

Are you basing your rad sizes on a heat-loss calculation?

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Eric Johnson

no calculations

Hey, thanks. I love those old things. They clean up real nice.

I haven't gotten sophisticated enough to calculate the heat output relative to my needs. I do know that the baseboards were doing basically nothing at 140 degrees, so I decided that more water was a good thing. I think it's probably oversized for what I need--maybe by as much as 2x, compared to the size of the room and the other hot water rads I have in my house (13). That's kind of my ace in the hole: Even it it only sorta works, it will be sufficient (I hope).

I plan to replace this with a hot water rad when I can find one the right size and shape. Given that it's piped in series with copper, that's no big deal.

Steamhead (in transit)

All you have to do

is click on "Free Heat Loss Calcs" at the top left. This will link you to Slant/Fin's site where you can order a free copy of their calc program. It's real easy to use, and you'll have a better system as a result.

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bob young

one never knows, do one ! lol