Tinkering with Taco's Radiant Mixing Block (hr)

Ted_9

I cant open the application guide online, but here is a RMB manual. See attachment

http://www.taco-hvac.com/products.html?current_category=170

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hr

This is

a clever idea and design. The cast brass block provides mixing and an air elimination point.

A couple of modifications I've been thinking about. I added a couple egg shaped holes to the case to ease installation. this would allow the installer to do the "wrenching" on the bench or floor before mounting on the wall. And eliminates the need for long mounting screws.

I'm nervous about the air vent located directly above the tekmar "brains" They all spit and leak somewhere along their life cycle. Looks like a 1/4" Jomar "mini ball valve" might thread on and allow both a shut off and a means to run a vinyl tube to a lower, safer location.

More to come as I do an actual install with the RMB.

hot rod

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hr

This is

a clever idea and design. The cast brass block provides mixing and an air elimination point.

A couple of modifications I've been thinking about. I added a couple egg shaped holes to the case to ease installation. this would allow the installer to do the "wrenching" on the bench or floor before mounting on the wall. And eliminates the need for long mounting screws.

I'm nervous about the air vent located directly above the tekmar "brains" They all spit and leak somewhere along their life cycle. Looks like a 1/4" Jomar "mini ball valve" might thread on and allow both a shut off and a means to run a vinyl tube to a lower, safer location.

More to come as I do an actual install with the RMB.

hot rod

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hr

This is

a clever idea and design. The cast brass block provides mixing and an air elimination point.

A couple of modifications I've been thinking about. I added a couple egg shaped holes to the case to ease installation. This would allow the installer to do the "wrenching" on the bench or floor before mounting on the wall. And eliminates the need for long mounting screws.

I'm nervous about the air vent located directly above the tekmar "brains" They (air vents) all spit and leak somewhere along their life cycle. Looks like a 1/4" Jomar "mini ball valve" might thread on to the vent and allow both a shut off and a means to run a vinyl tube to a lower, safer location.

More to come as I do an actual install with the RMB.

hot rod

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Blackoakbob

Thanks HR.....

I was wondering what was inside there! I thought it was a heat exchanger with separated water paths. That's why I hesitated to use it yet. I'm interested in your pictures of your application. I can't wait. Oh, by the way, do you know where I can get some typical application info? Best regards

Weezbo

Good Thought*~/:)

I'd like to see a pre drilled knockout on that plate for power and another for sensor control wire .

Ted_9

wiring

Yeah, feeding the low voltage wiring is a nightmare. Next one I do I'll put some 18/6 or 18/8(if they have that) in before I mount it.

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Constantin

Excellent suggestions, hot rod

I hope Taco not only takes you up on them but credits you as well. Encapsulating boards in epoxy does help, but keeping the water off is even better!

John White

Hot Rod,
Thanks for the input. We'll have someone look at it this week.
I really wouldn't worry about the air vent. Ours is a tough little unit, but still worth looking into.
I love the input!!
Very best regards and thanks to all for the comments..
I love making the GREEN STUFF better. Your the people who can help us the most.
Johnny White

JaredM

Mr. White

It's funny you should respond to this thread.

I was at the Chicago show last week and mentioned to the sales type manning your booth about both the awkward mounting options and difficult wiring (there's not enough room)of the RMB and he responded something along the lines of, "Gee, we never heard that before".

Don't get me wrong, you guys make some VERY fine hydronics products and you have for a very long time. I love your stuff and use this particular product all of the time because it works well and simplifies what can be an involved piping task leaving us to do other projects.

Thanks for listening!

-Jared

hr

An interface cord

I took an old computer/ printer cable and connected one end to the tekmar plugs. The other to a basic Radio Shack terminal strip.

The strip could be mounted in a 4" square electrical box up to four feet away. The small stranded wires folded easily and neatly into the space provided. It's even shielded wire! Much easier than solid t- stat wire I suspect.

hot rod

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Unknown

thanks for the heads up. I'm about to install my first one.

jerry scharf_3

Cinch terminal blocks

Hot Rod,

I have completely abandoned the big black strip wiring terminals. They don't ptotect things well, have no insulation protection and I don't like the way they hold the wires.

I now use the European terminal blocks, which are safe for any voltage, take a wider range of wires, clamp them better with less of a fatigue (wires go straight in.) They are the white plastic ones with the slots on the side and the screws on the top. I buy them in 12 long, then cut the number I need off with a hacksaw. I attach them with a couple thin tie wraps and mounting pads.

jerry

Wayco Wayne_2

Wonderful thinking Hot Rod.

Taco should listen if their smart, and I think they are. I like your solution for the air vent. I first heard the term, "wire over water" at a Siggy class. When he said it, I just about smacked my forehead with my palm and said D'oh. Now I always am aware of avoiding this problem when building a panel. I havent used this product yet but have a job down the road looking for an X- Pump Block, which is similar but has a flat plate installed in it.

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Constantin

Interesting...

... Jerry, on this issue the two of us went very different ways, it seems. I agree that the Euro-style blocks are great when it comes to making one-on-one signal wire connections, but I dislike them intensely when comes to joining multiple wires in a bus or making connections with large gauge wires. For my purposes many Euro-blocks are too compact to join a lot of wires together with any kind of documentation nearby.

My preferences are also shaped by my work in a marine environment where protecting the conductors is of utmost importance. Yes, they may be tinned, but there is nothing like a crimped, sealed ring connector (Ancor, Blue Sea, et. al.) to prevent any corrosion of the wires and 100% retention. Easy to inspect, easy to maintain (as long as you don't lose the screws), easy to test. You can buy shields for them also to prevent shorts. Euro-style connectors usually offer no corrosion protection whatsoever.

What Taco could do is mount a mated receptacle on the exterior of the Mixing block. Then supply a 10' wire assembly with a pre-wired plug on one end. Make it plug&play one side, neat, and speed assembly for the tech in the field. Some manufacturers already use this philosophy to make sticking plugs in the wrong ports pretty much impossible.

hr

The tekmar/Taco control

already6 has a euro style removable terminal strip. Really no need to add another connector block on the outside.

What about an interface cord with the tekmar plug on one end and bare wire on the other, like the tekmar snow sensor. With labels of course. Then the installer could pick his favorite method. Small blue wire nuts work fine, as do the various connector block available.

Mainly we want to get away from a lot of t-stat wire connections, and rat's nest, under the hood.

hot rod

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Constantin

Hear Hear...

... your proposed solution is what I meant, I must not have expressed myself well.

Joe Mattiello_2

RMB-1

The RMB-1 is a great very versatile product, and of course there is always room for improvement. Your comments and suggestions have been forwarded to the design engineer for the RMB-1. My position is to help diagnose problems, technical support on the RMB-1, and I have not heard of any problems with the unit. Admittedly, the low voltage terminals can become cumbersome to wire, but the strip does come out to help facilitate the wiring. If anyone has any specific questions about installation or with an application I will be happy to help.

Joe Mattiello
Technical Support Technician
Tel. 401-942-8000 X 484
Fax. 401-942-2360
1160 Cranston St
Cranston, RI 02920
joemat@taco-hvac.com

leo g_13

Johhny,

as soon as you can get that control to prioritize hot water, you will have the number one product out there! I would envision something like a sensor that tells the control that DHW pump is now on, so slow down the heating, or even have a programmable timed relay function built in (you know give us 15 minute increment options up to an hour or so). I like the tekmar way of prioritizing and as the tank recovers, also allowing floor heat to happen.

I have also oversized the boiler to be able to do both heat and hot water, but feel that this is very wasteful.

Maybe some kind of plug-in add-on that could be purchased seperately?

And don't be afraid to make the area that we have to wire in bigger. I find that as I get older, my fingers seem to be getting fatter! ~

Leo G

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Jed_2

A couple other things

The molex connectors for the pump motors could be ( and have been) disconnected from the wires. What then? You need to replace the pump stator housing, and there is no replacement P/N available for that.

The Brass casting inlets and outlets are offset to an unfreindly plumbling angle, making for some awkward and creative piping techniques (Ive seen them).

I've sold about three dozen of these and have had few complaints (two came back with small sand hole leaks). Have two operating continuously with no heat demand signal from the zone t'stats. Curious about that, and will investigate.

Great points, HR, about the wiring. Not installer freindly.

Jed

Jed_2

Leo

Prioritizing is not a problem if you follow the Taco RMB wiring diagrams. I doubt Tekmar will allow some of their advanced available load sharing technology with Taco. I'm sure there are restrictions to shared functonality in these arrangements.

Jed