The new Prejudice

Tom_35

I would also suggest that you purchase Ellen Rohr's book, "Where did the money go?" Some really good info and breaks down into common every day language.

I would also recommend Ruth King. She is really sharp as well and has worked with contractors for years.

I don't know much about Contractors 2000, but have heard of them from their inception. What were the sticking points that you had problems with?

I'm sure that other contractors have bit off more than they can chew as it seems you have done with your home addition. That's water under the bridge now, so the challenge is finding out how much more volume you need to do in your business to offset the added expenses you now have. With Ellen and Ruth's background, you may be able to talk with one or both, and see if you can get them to look at your needs, develop a program, and get going in the right direction.

I would think that most of us have had money issues at one time or another in our businesses. One of the things that I remember from a seminar I attended years ago was "People don't plan to fail---the fail to plan." And this is so true. I see HVAC companies in our area start up in the Spring, have a decent amount of business during the summer, so they buy a new truck or bass boat. When winter gets here, (an extremely tough time in the south), the truck and boat goes back to the dealers, and the contractor shuts the business down. Most have no idea what we go through to make a business run.

John, you've been doing this for 15 years. You know technically what you have to do. Now, have someone that is outside of your business take an objective look at then get after it. It's one of the best decisions I ever made.

Tom Atchley
Ft.Smith, AR

John Ruhnke

The new Prejudice

The new Prejudice

Hi Everyone,

I have a new subject to talk about, prejudice against trades people. I feel it all the time. I see it all the time. I am getting sick of it too. I am an Engineer. There I said it. The state of Connecticut calls it miss representation if I say it. So I won’t say it on my business cards or flyers or anything else. I am a professional too. Would you call me a Professional Engineer? Some might and I do think of myself as a Professional Engineer. Things get complicated because I highly respect the tough test and standards that the licensed P.E. must pass. I feel that they should be given credit for it. I just feel they should give a different name like Certified General Civil Professional Engineer. I would never consider myself a Certified General Civil Professional Engineer. They have a lot of knowledge that is very valuable to this country. They should be recognized for it. I passed a very tough test that cert6ifies me as a radiant designer and installer. I deserve recognition for that too. Of course there test is much tougher then my test. I will never call myself a P.E. ever on a business card or in public or even here. The term P.E. was set up for a Certified General Civil Professional Engineer a long time ago. This mistake is not the fault of any living Engineer. It is a problem that I can find no solution for.

As many of you already know, I have had a chip on my shoulder against engineers. I still do. I thought about studying for the P.E. test so that I could call myself one. Then I thought about what I would have to give up. The biggest thing is I would have to give up learning about energy efficiency. I have learned a lot lately and have developed a plan that I know will save the world billions of dollars in fuel bills. So I ask you what is the right thing to do? Work hard for selfish recognition from my peers? Or work hard to change the efficiency standards in this country and save the world billions of dollars in fuel bills? The DOE’s AFUE standard is a big joke and I have a simple solution to it that is twenty times easier to do and twenty times more accurate. I gave up on becoming a P.E.

I have worked hard to prove that I can do just as good a job or even better then an Engineer at designing hydronic heating systems. I proved it to myself and many others recently in the Radiant Panel Association’s System Showcase Awards. The system showcase is open to contractors and engineers. I have competed and done well against them. Yet it is illegal in the state of CT for me to design a system for another company instead of my own. This is prejudice and discrimination against trades people.

Who revolutionized aerodynamics in this country? A person who held a doctorate in aerodynamic engineering? NO!!!! It was two trades people like you and me. The Wright brothers wrote a patent that violated every physics law known at the time. The patent office held up the patent while the people that held the doctorates argued for five years that the principles in the patent could never work. Mean while a couple of simple trades people flew overhead.

Is getting an education important? YES!! Is college the only place to get an education? NO!!! The school system appeals to a person with a certain type of intelligence. That person does well in school. What about the type of person that is born to build? It takes a lot of intelligence to figure out how mechanical, computer and electrical systems work. It takes more intelligence to be a good plumber or hydronic technician then most college career jobs that are out there now. What if that person who is mechanically inclined has attention deficit disorder? Thomas Edison had ADD and many other great inventors too. That person would have a extremely hard time learning through the college system.

I ask you what if that person chooses the trades over college? What happens to him? What is societies opinion? Societies opinion is that the person took a short cut in life. Are we a short cut? What happens if that person decides to switch careers? That is when the prejudice starts. Try getting a job at a good pay. FORGET IT!!!! It isn’t happening!! Most employers will automatically disqualify you because you don’t have a diploma right off the bat. They don’t look at you abilities to do the job better then a college person. They ignore that. For some strange reason they treat you like a second class citizen. Even if they give you a job they won’t call you an Engineer. They will call you a technician. They will give you easier jobs that are beneath your capabilities and they will pay you less. THAT IS DESCRIMINATION and PREJUDICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I chose the trades over college. I have learned a lot over the years. The knowledge that I have gained is very valuable to this world. I am proud of who I have become. I wouldn’t change who I am. I would never trade my knowledge for a college education. If I went to college a good chunk of my knowledge would be missing. I am learning every day. I am getting smarter everyday. There are enough people with a college education out there that if I need there knowledge I can work with them and have them do certain tasks to do that I can’t do. There are certain tasks that I can accomplish that they can’t do and they need me. We need each other.

When I was born, I was born to build!! I chose the trades because god gave me those special abilities that work so well in the trades. I learn very well in that atmosphere. All I ask is that you give me the respect that I deserve and that you give me the same opportunities that someone with a college degree has. I was never a bad person for choosing the trades. I was never taking the easy way out. I was doing what God wanted me to do.

I love being an Entrepreneur. I wouldn’t trade it for working for somebody even if they paid me an Engineers salary. Unfortunately for myself I am not a very good business person right now. Whether or not I have a college education has very little to do with my success in my business. I have shortcomings in Charisma and other things. I have this ability to cut through marketing hype and see things as they are. I am grounded in logical reasoning. It makes me a good engineer but it makes me a lousy judge of other peoples feelings. This sometimes makes it hard for me to sell a job. The extra quality of our workmanship makes the job take longer. This causes my prices to be higher then my competition. My business is not strong enough to support my family right now. I am desperate. My wife doesn’t work any more because my kids are small. I added a big addition to my house and increased my mortgage substantially right now. My business has not been growing fast enough to keep up with the added expenses for many years now. I tried hard to make things work. Technically I have achieved great success. As an Entrepreneur I have just barely been scraping by. I am going to try one last ditch attempt to save it. I am going to overhaul my business. I am joining a mentoring group called Building Services Institute. They will cost me $23,400.00 to join them. If you saw my finances you would call me crazy for doing it. Trust me when I tell you. I am crazy if I don’t try it because if things continue the way they have been going I am going to lose my house.

I will have to give up on invention projects for a while. I feel bad for having to do so. People at the RPA made me Chairman of the Energy Efficiency Action Group. There are many people in the RPA that believe in me. Contractors and college educated people alike at the RPA believe in me. I appreciate that very much. I feel that I will be letting them down. In the short run, yes I will. In the long run, if I lose my house and business I will never be able to work on such projects ever again. If I succeed in building a business of substantial size then I will have plenty of time and money to work on the Energy Efficiency Project and more. I have not yet notified anyone at the RPA. I am still hoping for a miracle, like some way of doing both tasks at once. I need to get paid to do the EEAG stuff if I am to keep doing it. That is not realistic. A philanthropist would be my only chance. 9 out of 10 business’s fail in the first ten years. I have survived over fifteen years now. It is still a struggle but I learn every day. I hope I make it. I have no other choice it is the only thing I know. I think because I have no other choice is the reason that I will succeed.

Wish me luck,

John Ruhnke


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Tom_35

Take the step

John,

I don't know you but have read some of your posts in the past. I visited your website after reading the current post and have some suggestions based on some history of my company and others that I know.

It has been said that stupidity (or insanity) is doing the same thing you've been doing and expecting different results. This is so true. That being said, take a step away from where you've been and start a new life.

There are a lot of places you can get help. The investment you're talking about making is one that a lot of contractors have done in the past with other training organizations, and they've turned things around many times over. I've know companies that the banks were ready to shut them down they joined an organization that I belonged to, bought into the program, got completely out of their comfort zone, and started making an excellent return on their investments. Many of these contractors are millionaires now and have techs working for them that are making some of the highest incomes in their field.

I would also suggest you look into Plumbers Roundtable. This is the plumbing "arm" of the Service Roundtable and costs only %50/month. I've been subscribing to the SR from the onstart and the program doesn't cost---it pays with an immense amount of "business" information.

I grew up with tools in my hands and thought this was the way to be successful in our business. Sadly, being good doesn't cut it if you don't know how to price your work for a profit. Learn from these folks, apply what you learn, and things will change. You have to learn marketing and sales! When you do, you won't need to worry about making as much money as what a PE does. Most of the PE's and architects I know that are working for a company make half the salary I made when I was still working---and I, like you, did not have a college degree. But I attended many schools, classes, etc to learn the HVAC business.

Read the E-Myth series of books as well.

Good Luck,

Tom Atchley
Ft. Smith, AR

John Ruhnke

Been there............

Tom,

I have read the e-myth and a couple other versions. Good books. I was a member of Contractors 2000 for two years. It was the wrong business format for me. I work in the office at my business more then I work in the field with my hands. Things are better then they used to be but still not good enough. Thanks for the advice. I was fine until this house addition of mine.

JR

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John Ruhnke

I agree......

Tom,

I know Ellen Roher well. I have her book. It is a very good book. I currently have two employees. Before Dec 31 I had three employees. Had to let one go because I got slow. I estimate that I need at least twice that or minimum six field workers to make it.

The problems with c2000 were that it is set up for service work. The companies averaged three jobs a day. In 2004 I did a job that lasted over a year. I like to do big radiant projects. I researched Building Services Institute and I think they can help me. I could do it on my own but would make a few mistakes a long the way. BSI costs $23,400.00 for three years. They spend two straight days at your shop and anylize your business. Then they help set up a plan and help to implement it. They have training seminars. Nine different ones and that is included in the price too. Many software systems and books are included too.

2004 was the first year my wife didn't work. I had one big job that year and made more money then any other year even with her salery combined. I thought I was going to make it.
Then came 2005 and bad luck. I started a huge addition on my house. My house was very small and I desperetly needed the space. In the summer Fred my lead guy cut two tendends in his thumb. I lost him for two months. My addition has a lot of unforeseen extras that are killing me and the year was tuff in business. I had my guys installing my plumbing and radiant which ended up taking longer then I thought. This is time away from profitable jobs. I'm scared. I bit off more then I could chew and had some bad luck at the same time.

I hope this BSI thing works,

JR

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Mark Hunt

Perhaps


it would be better for you to stay in the office and design jobs while someone else sells them.

John, I was an installer for a very large company for many years. I studied my trade so that I could do it better. I worked hard at developing my skills. I went to every class and read every book. I can put systems together with my eyes closed now and I understand laws of physics that others do not.

That company did about 12mil per year, but they had actual salesmen handling that side of the equation.

I got tired of having a salesman tell me he "bid this one tight" and "if there is anything you can do to cut down on time.." so I decided to try out sales for my self.

My first month in sales was a complete bomb. Not one sale. I couldn't understand it. I knew more about heating and cooling than any of the other salesman in the company, why couldn't I sell? Then one day I noticed something. I saw a customers eyes dry out while I was explaining Boyle's Law. The customer didn't call me for a physics lesson, all he wanted was a new boiler. I was overloading him with info he had absolutely no concern with.

Another salesman noticed how I was struggling and loaned me a copy of Brian Tracy's "The Art of the Close". It's an hour long video about sales. How boring is that?!?!? I took it home and set myself up with a cheap box of wine, a notebook, pen and the remote. I fully expected to wake up in the morning with the TV making that "phhhhhhhhhh" sound and a spilled glass of wine in my lap. Didn't happen that way. Brian Tracy grabbed my attention as soon as the video started. I was sitting forward taking notes! I NEVER take notes! I watched that video 3 times in a row and whenI woke up the next day, I left the house with a WHOLE new mindset. No, I didn't become super-salesman over night. But I realized something. Building or designing a sale is different from designing heating systems. You can be the greatest designer/engineer in the world, but unless you can sell it it doesn't matter.

You wouldn't hire a car salesman to install one of your designs right? So why are you letting a designer sell your product? Trust me, it IS different.

When you and I met at Wetstock in Baltimore, I saw a deep passion in your eyes for what we do. While passion helps, it is only part of the equation. Knowing how to present the product is another in a long list of marketing and sales.

The man that owned that big company I worked for valued his sales force so much, that he would not allow them to fly together on the same plane nor ride together on the same bus when he sent the company on trips.(Yes, he would send the ENTIRE company, wives and husbands, on trips. One year the trip was Hawaii.)

Nothing happens in this world until someone sells something.

I am sorry to hear that you are having a rough time right now. I hope it all works out.

E-mail me if you want to discuss this further.

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

Perhaps


it would be better for you to stay in the office and design jobs while someone else sells them.

John, I was an installer for a very large company for many years. I studied my trade so that I could do it better. I worked hard at developing my skills. I went to every class and read every book. I can put systems together with my eyes closed now and I understand laws of physics that others do not.

That company did about 12mil per year, but they had actual salesmen handling that side of the equation.

I got tired of having a salesman tell me he "bid this one tight" and "if there is anything you can do to cut down on time.." so I decided to try out sales for my self.

My first month in sales was a complete bomb. Not one sale. I couldn't understand it. I knew more about heating and cooling than any of the other salesman in the company, why couldn't I sell? Then one day I noticed something. I saw a customers eyes dry out while I was explaining Boyle's Law. The customer didn't call me for a physics lesson, all he wanted was a new boiler. I was overloading him with info he had absolutely no concern with.

Another salesman noticed how I was struggling and loaned me a copy of Brian Tracy's "The Art of the Close". It's an hour long video about sales. How boring is that?!?!? I took it home and set myself up with a cheap box of wine, a notebook, pen and the remote. I fully expected to wake up in the morning with the TV making that "phhhhhhhhhh" sound and a spilled glass of wine in my lap. Didn't happen that way. Brian Tracy grabbed my attention as soon as the video started. I was sitting forward taking notes! I NEVER take notes! I watched that video 3 times in a row and when I woke up the next day, I left the house with a WHOLE new mindset. No, I didn't become super-salesman over night. But I realized something. Building or designing a sale is different from designing heating systems. You can be the greatest designer/engineer in the world, but unless you can sell it it doesn't matter.

You wouldn't hire a car salesman to install one of your designs right? So why are you letting a designer sell your product? Trust me, it IS different.

When you and I met at Wetstock in Baltimore, I saw a deep passion in your eyes for what we do. While passion helps, it is only part of the equation. Knowing how to present the product is another in a long list of marketing and sales.

The man that owned that big company I worked for valued his sales force so much, that he would not allow them to fly together on the same plane nor ride together on the same bus when he sent the company on trips.(Yes, he would send the ENTIRE company, wives and husbands, on trips. One year the trip was Hawaii.)

Nothing happens in this world until someone sells something.

I am sorry to hear that you are having a rough time right now. I hope it all works out.

E-mail me if you want to discuss this further.

Mark H

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John Ruhnke

I wouldn't have the money........

Mark,

I wouldn't have the money for a full time sales man. I do agree with you that a sales man would be useful. I need to even take a step back from that. I need a marketing plan first. I am going to do that. Ever since I won the contest in October I have had worse sales. Can you believe that. All that hard work to accomplish the task and nobody wants to hire me now. I have been bragging about doing well in the contest. I think that has had a negative effect for some strange reason. I have lately been anylizing myself. I think I need to concentrate more on what the clients desires are and less about my own accomplishments. I also should go back and read through some of my sales books that I have and refresh my sales tactics. I had a very busy schedule for over three years now. This is the first time that I am a little slow. The busy time spoiled me and I softened up on my sales tactics over that period.

JR



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Mark Hunt

Commission


As a salesman for that other compnay, I worked on a commission basis. I got paid only when I sold.

But you are correct John. It's not about you or me, it's all about the customer.

Remember that poem, "Foot-prints in the sand"?

This is one of those times when there are one set.

All my best,

Mark H



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Ted_9

John

Maybe its time to cut your personal expenses. Sell house, extra cars etc. You may have too much "revolving debit". I know, we all have this debit and we hate to hear it.

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John Ruhnke

I thought about that........

Adding the addition more then doubled the square footage. Logically I could sell the house and make a good profit out of the left over equity. The extra added equity is worth more then the addition cost to build. The problem is that I had this great radiant heating system installed. I love it!! I like the neighbors and neighborhood. I can't give up my house and move into a house with some crummy scorched air system. YUCK!

JR

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Weezbo

Sometimes the struggle looks worse from our perspective

of what we are doing and where we are. Dan bought a good point up this morning by inviting us to get away from it for a while yet when we look outside and the 100 below Thermometer is looking like it Must be Broke, it is not so easy peeking at our lives from that perspective.

This summer was actually worse for me than this winter,until the cold snap hit i was feeling pretty much exhausted. someplace along the line i read a story in Spanish and one of the sayings was "little by little one goes far." it is a reminder to us that the journey and the struggle Is the best it can be.

It sure sounds like you are feeling the weight right now. being that some of the aspects of your work are your favorite maybe if you focus on them it will open new horizons that no one else has even seen . That is one of the ways that God gets the message thru to us ,we Think that it is heavy until we realize "hey!* a light goes on * Wow! man , Wow! *

Some people are given a more difficult path.in any journey someone has to Break trail. that is why sometimes it just aint easy.unless you found something to be true for you and to work for you it is usually not what your Mind Wants to hear and will shut it out.

You have the ability to overcome any of these obstacles you are seeing in your life .the dammedest thing is when you are doing something you cant be trying to doit and get it done,you either doit or dont. for me if i do some work and i particularily hate it it may get "done" buh i always have a sneaking suspicion that someplace in the future i will be doing that exact same Kind of work again.

i am sure there are a great many people who do their best under the most adverse conditions and still others who fall asleep if the challange is not There. maybe what you have done is set yourself up for a challange that only you know how to pull though. you may have to do a bit more work in order to remind yourself of your solution.

*~/:) Good Luck

mark smith

i certainly can identify..
not having a good heating season here, 45* right now, way too warm...
biz is as bad as it's been in 15 years, 'cause basically no one is building/ spending money in NY
most of the bigger Mech contractors have problems, one biggie just took a dump .....
a 60 y/o company,
one that i work for occasionally, has 3 guys in the field, this is a 20 million $ company
(was) i guess ..

that and the wife want's divoriced, i'm not "sensitive" enuff to her needs ..

sooooo....

don't come to NY ..!

Long Beach Ed

..

....

Steve Garson_2

I don't know about the $23,500 program that you are signing up for, but it just sounds like a rip-off to me. I would take a step back and not spend that money.

I have my own business and knew that I hated to make cold calls and drum up business. I brought on a partner that was a sales person. Together, we built a business.

I think the posts about financial and debt counseling make sense. I would also strongly encourage you to find a business "coach" to work with you. It might cost you $150 a session, but a good coach will help you focus your business, focus on your strengths and help you find solutions to your weaknesses. A good coach can also act as a bit of a therapist. You sound like you are really angry and putting blame on not getting respect as a tradesman. Plenty of trademen command the respect they deserve. A lot of it revolves around the image they present in their appearance, the way they speak, how they read the customer or propect and focus on their needs and not just your desire show what you know.

Long Beach Ed

I can second

Mark's note... "don't come to New York".

All that second mortgage refinance money is drying up, taxes have doubled and things are real bad.

I, too, would hold back on any $23,000 program. SOunds like you're throwing money at a problem of not having enough money. Bad idea. You have to analyze your problem. Are you spending too much or making too little? When we build, we're always in a spending cycle. Get that house done, save a buck here and there and then move on.

Then simplify life. If you're the kind of guy who leases a new car every two years, go read the book "The Millionaire Next Door". You may just have to stop spending.

Then take a long look at business. Work smarter. Pass up the work that you'll lose money on. Sell quality instead of a low bid.

Hay. maybe you're doing all this. Times are getting very hard. The nation is slipping into a third world economy and the quality of life everywhere is not holding up. Look at where and how you can cut expenses and live a bit more simply.

By doing this, my wife has been able to stay home and raise five kids. I drive old cars and wear old clothes. But I don't owe anyone a cent and own lots of real estate, that, if I live long enough will repay me for my scroungy lifestyle.

Good luck.

Long Beach Ed

Steamhead (in transit)

John, it's just a repackaging

of a very old prejudice. IMHO we need to get away from calling this a "trade" and start referring to it as a "business" or "industry" which really is what it has always been in the first place. There are few other industries that have such a large impact on important matters such as energy use, and to continue thinking of it as just a "trade" takes away from this.

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Dave Stroman

It is hard for me to believe you need to spend that much $ to strighten out your business. I sure would not do it.

I have been in business since 1982. There has been some slow times but, in general, I do not ever have to advertise and turn away work almost everyday. There are so many idiots in the plumbing and heating business that people are always looking for someone they can trust. My wife handles the money, taxs, and accounting. I handle the bidding and doing the work. It is a struggle and I almost always do paper work at night and do not remember when I took a vacation last. I have a long list of general contractor that I work for and always have about 12 jobs working in various phases. I gets old, but I decided a long time ago that I had to be the one in the field and that I could not run a large business with lots of employees are trucks. I have 1 plumber, 1 helper, myself, and 1 truck.

Maybe things are better in this area than other areas. I don't know. I guess what I am trying to say is that amount of $ is too much. You will be starting out in a huge hole. Maybe it is worth it, if, if you had that much to invest.

Dave in Denver

steve b_11

Have you checked out SCORE ? It's a free service. They pair you up with an experienced, retired executive volunteer who helps you understand what does and does not work in your business now, and then they help you make your business run better. I haven't used them myself but years ago I had a friend who found SCORE to be very helpful. Their website is : http://www.score.org/explore_score.html

Tony_23

Some thoughts

You seem to be quite hung up on how you think people see you, as compared to how you want them to see you. Relax about that. People will see your value without letters behind your name. Besides, why would you want to design for other companies when you obviously like to do your own work ?

A negative, belligerant attitude will lose more prospects than you realize, the minute you open your mouth. Make a practice of listening to yourself when you are talking to a prospect. Are you talking about yourself ? Or them ? No one wants to hear about how you're so much smarter than the other guy or an engineer, they want to hear about your solution to their problem. How you came to that solution doesn't matter to them, only you. Your work will speak for you more eloquently than you can.

I think the demon you are fighting is the same one I have fought, and sometimes still do. A good friend pointed out my behaviour and told me what I have told you. It works.

I wouldn't spend 23 grand to tell me I'd overspent and things are just slow right now, either. Never panic, hasty decisions are seldom sound ones.

Steve Garson_2

Good suggestion. SCORE is a great program and it doesn't cost thing.

Wayco Wayne_2

Hey John

A lot of good advice on this thread. Things are hard all over. I am having trouble this Winter myself. I have a friend who is just finishing a year with the consulting firm you are interested in and his company is doing very well. He recommends them highly. His commitment was only for a year though. It seems to be aimed at service side but maybe that is where you build the foundation for a business. Service can be structured into the business machine that keeps the cash flow liquid, and then once that is set up, you can get into the larger more involved jobs that you love to do. I'd be interested what they have to say about custom installation type businesses like yours. Good luck. We're all with you in spirit. WW

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JoeV

What's in a name?

....That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.-Romeo.

Since you brought up the Wright brothers, I feel obligated to give a history lesson. It might cheer you up and keep you from being so hard on yourself.

Otto Lillienthal created the wing in 1891 and was the first hang glider to take to the air twelve years before Orville. He is the first to say "you must take off into the wind". To this day, aircraft take off into the wind.

The Wright brothers were business men with money and a dream. But even they weren't smart enough to build an engine for there flier. That was done by their anonymous bicycle shop mechanic, Charles Taylor, who developed the first aircraft engine (12HP) light enough to be lifted by the Wing designed by Lillienthal. He did it with a lathe, drill press and hand tools in six weeks. Never heard of Charles Taylor have you? He's a dead man.

What's a wing without propulsion? What's a world without the craftsmen? What's a world without engineers? We all have our part to play. Keep your chin up.

John R. Hall

John

I know Wendell Bedell and the work he has put into BSI. Don't take any of his training lightly -- learn it and practice it. There are a lot of good groups out there that cost $$$ to join and keep current. I've seen some people spend a lot of money and not use what they have learned. Others have spent the same amount, stuck to the plan laid out before them, and have done very well. It's not up to them (groups) to make you succesful -- it is up to YOU. Good luck my friend.

Unknown

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Mad Dog_2

IN the past 150 years...........................................

What WE do and DELILVER has been scantily appreciated. It is WE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who need to MAKE "THEM" respect us. Frank Blau, Dan, and Ellen have been saying this for years. Even. Mr Secor is a pure t & M'r would agree. Look in the mirror. I hear ya J.R. with you man. Mad Dog

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mark smith

frank blau ..

what a great guy ..

Rookie

Good Advice

Frank Blau,Randall Hilton, Maurice Maio, Ellen Rohr, Al Levi can all help you turn your business around, and for a lot less than 23 Grand, you should keep that 23 grand for your rainy day fund, and brother it sounds like it's raining.Weekly financial reports are a must, set daily, weekly goals don't leave the office until you feel you have acomplished them, if you have to cut staff then do it, finish the jobs yourself. You have to do what it takes to win, stay positive, your sucess will come from within, not some fancy pants consultant group.Good Luck.

John Barba_2

JR...

John---

Call me at the office tommorrow. I have a proposition for you...

JMB

jp_2

just like you mad dog

"It is WE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who need to MAKE "THEM" respect us."""""

geeze mad dog, "MAKE" them respect us, sounds like talaban force.

you get nowhere forcing someone to respect you, I thought you were well read.....

ChasMan

If things are a bit slow...

John Ruhnke, I have some work :-) Actually, quite a bit depending on the price. I am about 15 miles from you. We spoke in email a while ago about putting in a new Indirect and splitting a zone in two.

I also have a story!

When I was a kid (10 yrs old) I had a passion for cars and everything automotive... I guess my mom had told this to a few of her friends because one day we were travelling together with one of my moms friends and when we stopped at a light she pointed to a mechanic hunched over the side of a car, covered in grease with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth and said "There's your typical auto mechanic Charles.. do you really want to be one of them?"

People just have this vision of what mechanics, plumbers etc are.. mostly due to their limited exposure to them.

The last guy I had in my house was an ex navy submarine technician and was cleaner, better looking and more professional than I have ever been! He only did maintenance though :-)

John Ruhnke

Its about respect..............

Everyone,

Thanks for all the great advice. I want to point out that the main purpose of what I wrote is not the financial condition that I am in but it is about Respect.

WE deserve a lot more respect then we are getting. I wanted people to think. The trades are a choice for the born to build. The trades are best learned through field work, networking with other technical experts and attending seminars from someone with vast experience and knowledge in certain areas. College is to slow to pick up on the technical edge. The edge or cutting edge is the point at which new technology gets advanced. When you know everything there is to know about a narrow area. When you think of improvements beyond what exists and try them and then go on to network and teach it to others. That is how technology best moves forward. For some thing to be put in a college text book is often at least ten years old. In technology that is often past prime. College is not always the best place to learn. Don't get me wrong we need college people too. My friend Bob is very good with complex mathimatics. I am sure that he could of only learned this through extensive college courses and study. Bob had trouble applying these formulas to anything really useful though. Working with me, Bob and I can acomplish a lot. Together we make a good team. In some things I am smarter then him, in some things he is smarter then me. I have better 3d vision then he does. He is better with the formulas.

WE AS TRADES PEOPLE ARE EQUALS WITH COLLEGE FOLK!!!!!!!!! We should accept nothing less. We should accept no less of a title, no less pay and we should have equal oportunity provided to us for success.

If this problem is not addressed and fixed it will be the down fall of America. Some of our greatest acheveiments came from people who learned through field work or the trades.

Promotion needs to be done based on abilities and accomplishments and not on what school or degree that you have taken. I feel that most people have this deep desire to try and make things better for their kids. The easiest and best way is by sending them to the best schools. People are creating a kind of class society.

The purpose of education is to make one self more capable of improving the system or systems weather the system is business art or technology. The purpose of education is not to provide a better life for your kids.

We as a country need to focus more on the reality of what an education is for. If we all do that then I think we will begin to see the importance to promote other avenues of education.

John Ruhnke

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