LED Zone Lights

Xc8p2dC_2

> 1/Question__ In proper operation, is the <BR>
> boiler/burner supposed to stay on and get up to <BR>
> max cutout temp even AFTER the Tstat ends <BR>
> 2/Question __ I noticed that the orig installer <BR>
> that came back to look at it turned up the water <BR>
> temp control to 210 [probably for the reason you <BR>
> suggest, to span it over a longer time] BUT I <BR>
> also noticed the minimum setting is 180 COULD <BR>
> THIS BE THE WRONG CONTROL????? <BR>
> 3/Qestion__Joe, If I get the jist of what your <BR>
> saying, I would be using one Tstat to control <BR>
> Both zone TACO valves and one TT control from one <BR>
> zone vavle??____ This would be non-costly <BR>
> experiment and easily reversible if no benifit <BR>
> ANY ISSUES WITH THE 24Vac CONTROLING BOTH <BR>
> VALVES????? <BR>
> <BR>
> Or the proper way to convert to <BR>
> ONE big zone, utilizing the existing __ one <BR>
> Circulator, 2 Zvalves, 2 Stats <BR>
<BR>

Xc8p2dC_2

Any Peerless experts on the Wall

Well after suffering almost a year of what I guess you would call "Short cycling Insomnia" I decided to get creative and create a "hack" to have 2 different color LED's that sit in my bedroom so I can get a handel of what gives.

I have had 2 different Heat Co's in to look at my New Peerless DE-05 NG boiler and they both said that the controls are operataing properly. The fact it is 3-4 times OVERSIZED for my H-L is part of the problem, but trying to figure out if I can smooth the cycling out a little

Utilizing a couple of runs of wire, some doides and resisters, I got a nice red and green LED for each zone so I know exactly when the tstat calls and ends

Part of my problem is overlapping>> I have three delays [1, tstat call to zone open 90 sec >> 2 Boiler evac fan to burner fire 12-15 secs >> 3, tstat end to burner off 10-15 sec}[ I say burner to mean flame]

What happens is, tstat will call, circ will circ, burner will fire when min temp is reached, then tstat ends, >> Most of the time the burner will run for 2-5-10 sec's, then shut down till next call>>> sometimes 30 sec's, sometimes 1 min [ sometimes the evac blower comes on and system shuts down before the burner fires up] and if I'm lucky and the other zone calls it will run for it's required time to reach max temp [with both zones open It can reach max in 5-6 mins ]

Now, THE BIG QUESTION

1/ In proper operation, is the boiler/burner supposed to stay on and get up to max cutout temp even AFTER the Tstat ends

2/ IF not, is there any way to change the controls/wiring to allow it to

My thinkin, is, if it can replenish to max temp at least when it calls the next time, the circ will run for a given period of time before firing up and stay fired for longer periods and not have to listen to the on/off click/clunk all night long

Sorry for the long post, but after following this forum for some time, I see there are some pretty inteligent/experianced and helpfull people here that don't ming racking thier brains>>> thoughts, comments,, arrows, lol

TIA
Rich

ken_36

why was the boiler oversized in the first place? Try and downfire boiler to an accepable level of a safe flue gas temp. If it's an outside chimney in a cold climate be very careful not to send too cool a flue gas out or the condensate will cause the chimney to freeze up. Has an efficiency test been performed?

Xc8p2dC_2

Not sure

Why it's oversized, decent company, guess they had it kicking around from a Mall, hehe

2 Zone, Fine tube baseboard, direct vent>>> can't imagine I would have any efficiency from a boiler that runs for 30 sec's or less

You brought up an interesting point thought>>>>> I know you can down fire a oil unit>> but is it possible to remove or plug burner rails?? and re-calibrate gas pressure on a cast iron boiler??

I know a buffer tank would help, but I would still be firing at 140K btu, all the time

hr

You already know the

best fix Replace the boiler with one of the correct size.

There are a few tricks, all bandaids to a boiler that is grossly oversized. Spread the boiler operating control as wide as it will go, and the manufacture will allow. You might run from 150 - 185. I doubt return temperature will be an issue with that much hp!

A two stage t stat could help, Stage 1 fires the circ pump, stage two the boiler. This could help the on off spread a bit.

Yeah a buffer could be anotjher means, but to pipe and control it right gets involved and expensive PS loop, etc.

I see more and more convential boilers with two stage gas valve options these days. that you would want blessed by the manufacture.

Why not have the original installer trade you out for the boiler the matched the load?

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Xc8p2dC_2

Mod-Con wannabe

Hot Rod>> got the Ultra 80 lined up, but my installer of choice is hammerd and said he will give me a good deal in the off season [he knows I got heat]

You hit the nail on the head, thats exactly why I added the LED's, to see if I would get a benifit from a 2 stage [he recommended a RoberShaw 9610]

Question >> I noticed that the orig installer that came back to look at it turned up the water temp control to 210
[probably for the reason you suggest, to span it over a longer time] BUT I also noticed the minimum setting is 185
COULD THIS BE THE WRONG CONTROL?????

The original installer was not hired by me, but by the defunct builder and is owed money [they re-looked at it after I bought the house in March and said everything was fine and not oversized [so I know here I stand with them]

Yikes>> just got my gas bill> near 37-40 deg month, NEW 1250 sqft ranch, kept at 62-68deg>>>> 175 CCF @ $2.04 per

Joe Brix

Got 2 zone valves?

I'd slave one off the other. Allow zone valves to open but only have the zone that gets colder faster trigger the TT contacts on the aquastat. Now when the boiler fires, likely both zones will be open increasing the load and run time. Cheapest band-aid I can think of.

Xc8p2dC_2

You guy's Rock!!

I knew i could count on ya for idea's

Joe, If I get the jist of what your saying, I would be using one Tstat to control Both zone TACO valves and one TT control from one zone vavle??>>>> This would be non-costly experiment and easily reversible if no benifit

ANY ISSUES WITH THE 24Vac CONTROLING BOTH VALVES?????

This makes sense to me as one big zone, because my problem is the two fighting with each other>>> What has worked the best for me so far, has been setting the Tstat's 5-6 deg difference of each other at night
Rich

Xc8p2dC_2

follow up's

1/Question>> In proper operation, is the boiler/burner supposed to stay on and get up to max cutout temp even AFTER the Tstat ends

2/Question >> I noticed that the orig installer that came back to look at it turned up the water temp control to 210 [probably for the reason you suggest, to span it over a longer time] BUT I also noticed the minimum setting is 180 COULD THIS BE THE WRONG CONTROL?????

3/Qestion>>Joe, If I get the jist of what your saying, I would be using one Tstat to control Both zone TACO valves and one TT control from one zone vavle??>>>> This would be non-costly experiment and easily reversible if no benifit

ANY ISSUES WITH THE 24Vac CONTROLING BOTH VALVES?????

Or the proper way to convert to ONE big zone, utilizing the existing >> one Circulator, 2 Zvalves, 2 Stats

Xc8p2dC_2

Anyone?

Beulher? ......Beulher?

marco_5

heat manager

This might be an application for the Beckett heat manager. It almost works like a two stage control, is pretty cheap, and easy to install. I have seen it cut back short cycling on quite a few oversized boiler before. as others have said, the right thing is to replace the boiler, but recontroling may just be band aid you need.