One Pipe Steam Problems/Questions

rep

with a 3“ header feeding 20 feet of 2 ½” main (.68 cf) that tees into two 2” mains of 22’ (.48 cf) and 100’ (2.27) with 4A valves I’ve added on the end of each. Would that be considered Lilliputian? Would a Hoffman 75 be large enough? What if I also add a 4A on a tap that’s a bit less than mid-way along the larger main?

I pressure tested the system with air and plugged vents. What’s a ballpark range on how long it should hold 1 psi of steam, i.e. 1min/10min/30 min?

Thanks for the advice on the insulation, anyone have a recommendation for a good source?

I plan to order the book tomorrow; I trust it contains very specific instructions on cleaning boilers, winterizing for extended time away, etc. Manufacturer instructions may be hard to come by.

Any further help is appreciated.

Thanks

rep

One Pipe Steam Problems/Questions

I have a one-pipe steam system with a Kewane Type R (oil or gas) boiler with about 3.5 cf of mains and .5 cf of risers. The building was built in the 1920's and it could be of that vintage. Anyone familiar with this model and know the BTU rating on it? How about a way to clean it?

Seems I have two problems. First, with my pressure cut-out set at 3 psi (yes I lowered it) I lose 1 1/2 psi per minute when the boiler stops. Shouldn’t it hold pressure longer? I pressurized the system with plugs in all the vents holes and it held 5 psi for 15 minutes. All my vents are new Hoffman 1A at the radiators and 4A at the end of each main.

My second problem is it takes 15 minutes longer for steam to reach my last radiator than the first. Are the 4A valves to small for this system? Need I be concerned with the drop away pressure of 3 psi on the larger Hoffman 75 valve? I guess it would help if I understood what “drop away pressure” means.

I suspect my problems may be related to the insulation being removed and I’m considering which type to replace it with. Any thoughts on polyethylene vs. elastomeric tubing vs. fiberglass? The highest reading I got on the mains was 160 degrees so it seems I could use a less expensive product with an upper use limit of 180 degrees. Are the benefits of thicker walls and thermal conductivity (if this is the correct criteria) worth the extra cost? The difference between the best and worst conductivity of one manufacturer seems to be about 20% but the price is double.

Take it easy on me as this is my first steam system and I’m enjoying it immensely. Kind of feel like Steve McQueen in The Sand Pebble, you know where he goes below deck and says, “Hello engine”. I try to explain what I’m doing to my wife and all she can say is “live stem stopp wow”.

Sanks

rep

Maybe to many questions

What I'd really like to know is are the Hoffman 75 main vent valves any good?

How can I clean this boiler? I read here to dissolve 1 lb TSP and lye and let it cook for three hours. Does this mean "cook" it with the boiler on or chemically? No TSP at Home Depot, will "substitute TSP" work? Will this loosen the "mud" in my boiler?

Sanks

Steamhead (in transit)

I have some questions.....

First, do you have just one long main, or several? It would be easier to just give us the length and diameter of each main. We can tell you what's needed. The 4A is way too small for all but Lilliputian systems.

Second, when you pressure-tested the system to 5 PSI did you fill it completely with steam? If not, there's the answer- when the system is running normally and trips the Pressuretrol, the steam is condensing and that's what causes the pressure drop. The cure is insulation. Use Fiberglass with walls at least 1 inch thick. This stuff will never melt, whereas you never know about the others. Don't forget that the pipe will be hotter with insulation on it.

The Kewanee Type R was made as recently as the 1940s, and maybe later than that. Consider replacing it with something more efficient.

Get a copy of Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". It is a gold mine of information. Order yours from the Books and More page of this site.

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Long Beach Ed

Home Depot??

Stay away from the place. There's nothing of quality sold there.

The Hoffman 75 is a good vent, but you must learn about venting and install the proper size vents for the air that must be handled. We like Gorton main vents. Install them, properly sized and you woun't go wrong.

When you get the book, read what is said about cleaning and skimming steam boilers. There's more to it than throwing chemical in and walking away. You'll spend a day or two if it's really dirty.

Long Beach Ed

rep

Which book

would have the most info on what I’m looking for pertaining to my system; boiler cleaning/vent sizing/ph testing/how long it should hold pressure?

rep

Source for Gorton

main vents online?

Long Beach Ed

Vents and Book

Pexsupply.com has gorton vents in different sizes.

This site has "The Lost Art of Steam Heating," an excellent book if you are handy or in the trade.

Long Beach Ed

Steamhead (in transit)

100 feet of 2-inch main

with the 2-1/2-inch added on, should have three Gorton #2 vents at the end. Put them all at the end, you need your maximum venting capacity where it will affect the whole main.

Try putting both your 4A vents on the end of the short main. If they aren't big enough, switch to a Gorton #1 there.

You want the mains to fill with steam at a couple ounces pressure, in 1-2 minutes measured from the point at which the boiler starts steaming.

"Steamhead"

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rep

Steamhead

Is there a single Gorton valve I can put onto my 1" riser tapped at the end of the 100' main? Would a single Gorton #1 with the added 4A stuck on midway be too small? If so can I put two on one tap with a tee and street elbows maybe?

The short main works fine with the single 4A as it only has two radiators on it.

Steamhead (in transit)

The #2

is the biggest vent anyone makes. Keep your extra 4A for a spare- it won't do the long main any good.

Three Gorton #2 vents, all located at the end. The 1" riser will handle all three #2 vents.

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rep

Gotcha

Thanks, I jumped the gun and assumed incorrectly.

I have a 1" Wye strainer on now, any suggestion on how to configure the three #2's on top of that?