Barn Storming...

[Deleted User]

We're just "wingin' it". I intend to at least match the area served with an identical grid, buried deep. As for controls, if no solar interface, system would be allowed to thermosiphon continuously, and if needed, a circulator can be turned on to augment natural movement of the fluid.

Remember, we're on the bleeding edge of this technology. This is not a class one, two or three, it's a class E, for Environmentally sound. The use of a snow shovel may be necessary at times, but it WILL melt faster than allowing it to wait for the spring thaw...

Just curious myself, what did you choose for a load factor per square foot? 150, 100, 75?

ME

[Deleted User]

Raising the dead...

We're finally getting our radiant floor barn project under way. Congrats to the FNG, Sean Smith on a job well done.

Looks can be deceiving. The interior framing is from an 1870's barn found on the banks of the Ohio river, The new barn owner contracted with a group back east to document, disassemble, ship, prepare a site and reassemble the post and beam, mortise and tennon constructed barn. He then contracted with the same firm to have SIP panels built to fit into the exterior walls, and the roof.

As you can see from the interior photos, the "roof" is made of the original tin, but again, theres a 12" SIP filling the gap between the exterior tin roofing and the interior roofing.

The heat source is a ground source heat pump system with the ability to also provide air cooling for AC loads.

We're also providing the owner with a bid to do snowmelt on the north side of the home, using good ol' mother earth as the heat source, augmentated with a slightly oversized DHW solar preheat system. There will be no actual GSHP for the snowmelt system, just contact with the earth at 10' deep... I told the good doctor that we couldn't guarantee immediate snow removal with this system, but that we should be able to cut his shoveling time to almost nothing, with an associated energy cost that will also be next to nothing compared to most of the systems we do.

He's obviously a forward thinking fellow and I think he'll at least install the DHW pre heat and the tubing in the slab, then eventually have us back out to do the earh link...

Hey, I think I just came up with a name for this new method of snowmelting, Earth Link:-) Think the ISP people will mind???

Enjoy!


ME

[Deleted User]

Pictures

Hopefully...

[Deleted User]

Photo up!

Thanks for the fix Dan!

The wood work inside this ol' barn is fanstatic. All hand hewn mind you.

ME

Steve Ebels_3

I see

What looks to be a big wood burning fireplace in one of the pics. What control strategy are you employing to compensate for the heat output for that puppy?

That is a way cool job Mark!!!

bob_50

Mark,

would you please elaborate on the floor construction. bob

[Deleted User]

Non Electric TRV's to the rescue...

The whole house is zoned with non electric wall mounted TRV's. The one serving the great room is within 10 feet of the wood burner and will pick up it's output real fast and shut down the TRV. As the fire dwindles, and the wood burner's radiant output subsides, the TRV picks up proportionally and keep the minimums maintained, FLAT LINE.

ME

[Deleted User]

Bob...

The ceiling in the basement below is also post and beam construction. The owner would not allow us to do our usual plunge route trick to get back into the grid, so we had them put down 1/2" OSB, 2X4 sleepers flat for wide plank flooring to be placed as finish. This allowed us to put down 1/2" of foam insulation between the sleepers.

Not ideal, but better than no insulation at all. His wife has been put on notice that she can not lay any high R value rugs over the floor in this part of the home. Half of the home is new construction with conventional TJI joists, with R19 insulation. She's allowed to place low to medium R values there. You have to educate the consumer early on these situations.

Did that answer your questions bob?

ME

Ron Schroeder_3

tube spacing

Mark, there is no way to scale your center to center tube spacing in the great room. Can you fill in the missing data?

[Deleted User]

Approximatley

8" OC... Give or take.

ME

bob_50

Thanks Mark

(:

Ron Schroeder_3

given the ceiling height and glass load

did you install auxillary heat emitters?

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

I'm curious

as to your calculations regarding the amount of tube that must be buried 10' deep in order to melt snow. I've recently gone through some similar calculations as I saw the situation and the amount of tubing required underground was incredibly large, even with some non-conservative assumptions. Also, how will you control it?

Very cool job,

-Andrew

[Deleted User]

Forced air....

2nd stage heat CAN come from forced air distribution system we installed for cooling, but the owner doesn't think it'll be needed, and intends to use the wood burner to augment if necessary.

We have a total of 10 tons of GSHP cpnnected to the loads...

ME

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Actually

What I was calculating was cooling value rather than heating value. Sometimes a client needs to see numbers rather than simply logical arguments. My assumptions primarily involved the soil thermal properties. I assumed perfect everything and the performance still wasnt there. Delat-T is everything. It all depends on how warm the Earth is 10' down. I'll be interested to hear how it works if they decide to do it.

-Andrew