Boiler replacement / removing radiation

Bob W._3

Thanks Dave. But its an old one pipe system. I remember you had a running discussion with Noel, steamhead and others some years back about boiler sizing. Due to age and the passage of time thats all I can remember. I think we are finally going to pull the trigger this year on a new boiler, Burnham or Slant Fin (that is what the local installers go with now).

Bob W._3

Replacing a boiler after removing radiation

I used to frequent this site some years back. We are finally ready to replace our Weil 105EGH. We cut back on the 1072 sq. ft. of steam by removing 300 sq. ft. on the third floor and removing additional radiation on the 2nd floor, leaving about 569 Sq. Ft. of EDR. All of Dan Holohan's books and articles recommend using a 1.5 factor to pick up the piping, not the usual 1.33. My experience has been, however, that the risers don't heat up (and therefore don't condense much of the available steam) if the valves to the radiators on that riser are closed. That would seem to eliminate some of the reason for using the larger piping multiplier. Of course, the mains are sized for the original 1072 sw. ft. Any thoughts on this? Is Steamhead still around? Thanks. Bob Winzenburg, North Mankato, MN

Boilerpro_3

Glad to see ya again,

If I remember you've got two pipe. If you do, and still want to reduce your EDR some more, if possible, you can use orifice plates from Tunstall to match your current radiators to the current heat loss of each room. Also, if I remember right, a guy has been doing this for about 10 years on the east coast in hundreds of building and no longer uses a pipck up factor. Tunstall has a copy of this article, Mine is somewhere at the moment. TRV s are nice too.

Just wait a little bit, Steamhead has been around alot lately....lots of steam questions being posted...its that time of year.


Boilerpro

Steamhead (in transit)

Here I am

Bob, if you've right-sized the radiation according to a heat-loss calc but the old, now-oversized pipes are still there, you'll want to go with a bit more pick-up factor to get all that extra metal hot. 1.5 might be a bit much but you can always down-fire slightly from that if needed.

On the plus side, the oversized piping (as related to the current load) will distribute steam at lower pressures.

I seem to remember you had parts of the house you didn't use much. Thermostatic radiator valves would be a big help there. I have a project going where we're measuring the fuel saving made possible by TRVs on a one-pipe system in a small house. You might want to keep an eye on this as we go thru the season. Here's the link:

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=22035&mc=22

Steam Bunny

Are you thinking of Henry Gifford? He uses Turnstall.

Steam Bunny

Henry Gifford?

Are you thinking of Henry Gifford? Think he uses Turnstall to downsize. Also fond of TRV's. Is on Riverside Drive, NYC

Bob W._3

Boiler sizing

Thanks Frank. Hope to get out to B'Mo next year to see my kid brother. I'll consider the TRV's, but we have already installed a gas stove on the 3rd floor, as well as an insert in the fireplace on the 1st floor. The second floor already has a forced air furnace as well as radiation. The intent here is to space heat in the spring and fall when a boiler is at its worst, and let the boiler take over in the really cold weather. The remaining 569 sq. ft. of EDR at a 1.33 pickup factor would be about 642 sq. ft. at a 1.5 factor; we will probably go with that to be safe. We like steam and don't want to abandon the whole system. BTW, we used 2966 therms last year, at 7143 HDD, and just over 4,000 sq. ft. (not counting the very warm basement). Hope to do a little better with a smaller boiler and some energy upgrades. These warm winters will not last in these parts. Regards.