Concert Hall And Radiant Heat

GMcD

Those are "ventilation dominated" spaces and ventilation rules. That being said, the most effective way of maintaining a low level of space heat between occupancies would be a radiant system, depending on the heat losses and what the "setback" temperature wants to be. Normally spaces like that are kept "pre-cooled" to allow the heat from 500 bodies to act as the room heating source when the hall is occupied. Ventilation is normally best done via displacement air from low level, preferably along the seat steps at a rate of around 25-30 cfm per seat of 65F air (adjustable). This air can be 100% outdoor air, or a blend of OA and RA, but most spaces with a DV system use 100% outdoor air during the occupied period, and then shut it off if the space isn't occupied. It's similar to Church spaces - a long time empty, and a mass of hot bodies in short bursts.

Theealchemist

Concert Hall And Radiant Heat

A project in our little town was thinking of installing radiant heat. Lots of concrete to be poured. The space is to be used as a concert/rock and roll venue. The Mechanical engineer has pushed the design firm away from radiant heat stating that overheating problems will occur when the Hall hits capacity. 400-500 people. Any comments?

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Paul Pollets

Ventilation

All spaces require ventilation. There are ventilationj codes that will apply to the space, even if radiant is used as the heat source.

You may want to look at Robert Bean's website....www.healthyheating.com

He's described the system approach to building comfort.

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Theealchemist

Re: Ventilation

Thanks for the response Paul. Air exchange is yet another reason they are thinking of forced air. I guess I'm just curious to see if anyone has an opinion on radiant heat and this buildings use.
Heating the space @ 64-66 F and then adding 400 people suddenly.
I will read further at Mr. Beans Site. (I'm a big fan of his)

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Brad White_9

Stephen-

Give me a call off-line, start with e-mail.

I am heading out to a meeting soon and can fill you in.

I designed several performing arts centers

(HVAC engineer- did I spell HVAC right? )

and can give you a synopsis to help with your concerns. I would post now for the wider audience but have to run. Will post for general information later.

Best,

Brad

Constantin

I agree...

... better to do the heat in stages and ahve the radiant system carry the bottom load, then have the more responsive air system make up the difference as needed. It is unlikely that a radiant system could respond properly to the fast-changing conditions inside performance arts spaces... so many BTUs being emitted as people settle in, sit, etc.

That said, many of these places have very high ceilings that allow some slop in the system via convection. But I would not bet the house on it and consult the likes of Mr. White who has done this sort of a project before.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Old "Movie Palaces" typically had the most advanced and comfortable climiate conditioning systems of their day. As another "ventilation dominated" space the dead men came up with some rather amazing systems using the "conquer and divide" method with base heating/cooling and occupancy-based on "top". While equipment is now more advanced, the general rules still apply and old books describing such systems frequently give VERY good explanations of what's going on and how to achieve your goal--this part hasn't changed.

GMcD

True

A local theatre that dates back to the early 20's (pre mechanical cooling) had the void space under the tiered seating filled with ice blocks in summer before the crowd gathered, and a fresh air opening to the void space allowed the thermal plumes of the people to pull fresh air across the ice blocks to create low-tech displacement ventilation via grilled openings in the steps between seat rows. Back when tons of cooling really meant tons of ice blocks....

Mike T., Swampeast MO

And in heating mode that void space became a gigantic air plenum. Since the floor itself was concrete, they effectively had a combination of radiant and warm air heat!

I've even seen air outlets in the seats themselves!

Brad White_45

Exactly, Geoff. What you said.

The 25-30 cfm per seat rule holds as well in my experience.

I use a design basis of 15 cfm outside air per person in an assembly occupancy and start at 30 cfm per seat which may be a tad less when up against the load. Hence 50% OA. Displacement is the best way, no doubt but diffusion from overhead means almost all the return down low if displacement is not practical.

CO2 monitoring to cut back OA is a good energy saver particularly at part occupancy.

On the whole, the psychrometric profiles of Concert Halls are incredibly interesting, to me anyway.

I would endorse the notion of radiant heating with the caveat that with no doors or windows and just opaque walls and roof, the average performance hall -especially when surrounded by circulation space- has a very low heat loss indeed. Tap the accellerator very carefully. A degree or two on the airside above ambient is often plenty.

Theealchemist

This actually is an old "Movie Palace" Amazing old Building.
We are talking with the new owners regarding decorative stained concrete and overlays and I was amazed they looked into radiant and then we're "talked out of it."
Hey Brad. I dropped you an e-mail with my phone numbers.
I will get room details after the weekend and post what numbers come back to me. Happy St. Pats Day everyone.

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