Utica Boiler Transition

Shawn Bisgrove_2

First, the problem:

I have a Utica boiler from 1952 which has and continues to function fine. However, my current
heating bill is continuing to go up even though my usage is down. I now keep the house at 60 degrees
during the day and 57 at night. During 0 degree days, my furnace operates around the clock and for
every hour of operation it cost aproximately $3.00 in Natural Gas costs. I have a 3 year old daughter who
struts around at old-time theater for Dance class where all of the other kids are wearing coats. This is because she
is used to the colder temperatures. I also have a son (9 months) who we bundle up so we can keep the bills under
control ($3600 a year for NG/Electricity for last year).

I had a local heating company come in and wanted them to give me a quote for the job of puting in a new
more efficient boiler next to the existing one. What annoyed me was I asked the guy up front to supply me
both an itemized list and the means by which he sized the radiator. He provided neither and only gave me
a quote for a 250-MGB Utica Boiler and a few of the other items like rewiring, not including flue. The quote
for this was $8,800. I looked up the cost of the parts and they ran about 3,300. They promised they would
send me a new quote, but I have been waiting a week and no new quote or backup material has arrived.

I have done plumbing (copper to replace the cast iron), electrical (rewired my entire house w/ 12g including
attic subpanel and new main inspected and approved), and hot air work in the past and think that if I plan this job
out just like the last ones, I could manage to do this as well. I was already planing on changing out the hot water heater
and installing a NG fireplace insert. So I refuse to do business with people who cannot listen when I seeming ask for
simple things such as a price breakout or backup material. I can afford to spend about $6000 and am really not trying to
cut corners. I just don't like being taken advantage of. If people don't listen prior to getting paid, what is to say they will
listen to you after. Also, I know the guy did a radiation only measurement of the house.


What I want to do:

My uncle works for a plumbing/heating supply business in NY and can get me the parts I need. I have a local plumbing store
which can order me anything else that I would need. They also can cut and thread iron where needed. My flue is not in the best
of shapes and I would like to side vent the system I put in. Burnham is my top choice as a replacement (Natural Gas). My uncle
does not sell Utica. Given that the EDR radiator sizing comes to 220,000 BTU and there is really no direct vent system that would
cover that, should I go with a 2 boiler system. On many days such as today @ 25 degrees the boiler runs for 3 hours in the morning and
3 hours at night to keep the house at 60degrees and then during the night 57 degrees. I have rockwool in the attic and plan on
(god forgive me for saying this) blowing in insulation next summer. A heat loss estimate have not been done because I am waiting
for the books that Dan wrote before I do that.

I also need to change out all of the shutoffs for the radiators because many of them are original to the radiator installation (1910). I am afraid if
I were to turn them, they could start leaking horibbly. One already went and the local plumber that can actually spent the time to show me what to
do in the future. One tool later and I feel pretty confident I can tackle this problem ( I will be looking for the orifices plates when I do the
switchover).


After all of that So my questions are?

Is my old furnace as inefficient as the guy said it was (50%)? It has been converted from coal to oil to gas and currently has a 150-300btu insert in
the oven part of the furnace (as I joke with folks, I could probably cook a few turkeys in there).


If I build a new system?
Should I continue to use iron to attach to the new boiler?

Should I just put in metal flue to line the old flue?

Should I go with a two boiler system? And if so, should I reline the flue or go with side vent (power vent). How does the one boiler trigger
the second boiler to kick on (temperature of the water?) certainly not the temperature of the house (then they would always be on or off together).

Do I need a bypass since I am moving to a circulator closed system?

Is closing the system as simple as capping the pipe in the attic and making sure the pressure is equivelent to the pressure gauge that I currently read to
make sure the system is operating optimally (10psi)?






I appologize for the length of this message, I will unfortunately have more questions once I figure out the list of things I need to get.

Shawn Bisgrove_2

Not that this adds any more information My house is a 2 story 2800 square foot house with added storm windows and thermal curtains.