Charging for Helpers

jeff_51

I have worked for several. Since I am licsensed in plbg and hvac, I see it all the time. The current co I am working for hasn't gotten there yet, flat rating I mean, but I will get them there. When they know up front the cost, you don't have them hanging over your shoulder, counting how many times you go out to the truck and no issues over helpers, or argueing over the time spent costing out the job etc. You really get to know exactley what your costs truely are

Wayco Wayne_2

I had a service call

yesterday where the customer questioned my charging him for my helper. "I didn't see him do much," he said. I don't speak well spontaneously so I stammered a bit and pretty much said, sorry but that's our policy and didn't explain much after that. But I started thinking about all a helper does that goes unnoticed. On this job in particular he picked up the parts from the supply house and returned them and walked them through the warranty process for me. Time I would have to pay him for, so why not pass the charge on to the customer. There are times he does more and times he does less. Even running to get things out of the truck for me while I puzzle over a problem is a big help. What is your policy on this subject? WW

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

heatboy

If you can't bill............

his time, he is part of your overhead. Just like gasoline or insurance. Add his paycheck into your overhead mix and charge accordingly. Someone (everyone) pays for his OJT.

hb

Jim_47

Helper charges

Wayne,
I was asked to upgrade 5 very large apartment buildings for vent and ventalation. Duct work that took two people to install. (one inside one outside). I had my son (a graduate from NEFI, Gas tech school etc) Assist me on the job, and I charged for a helper. The owner of the complex used his poison pen on me, telling me that I could not bring a helper on the job unless he approves it first. Instead of getting into a undesirable discussion, I billed the next job out with two techs! Hey he had the cert's from his schools so I charged him the way I should have from the begining. He never mentioned anything again about my labor charges.

[Deleted User]

People must think that slavery is still legal....

Back in the old days when an apprentice did unpaid servitude to his mentor, it was accepted that you did not have to pay the assistant technician.

Today, ALL assistants are paid, and the customer is expected to be billed for their time. Not necessairly at the same rate as a more qualified technician, but they are in fact a part of the equasion and must be accounted for in their billing, and if they weren't there, the customer would have to pay your more exhorbitant rate for doing the little things that they do do. Explain it to them that way and see what their reaction is. If they still grumble, FIRE THEM. You don't need the added stress in your life.

ME

brucewo1b

We have always charged one labor price for one person and differnt labor price for two, price dependant on whom the second person is another tech or a helper.

jim lockard

The apprentice

In olden times lived in the Masters attic and ate at his table every nite Mark, THAT AINT HAPPENING.

Geo_5

olden tymes

Now they live in a semi-legal furnished apartment in the basement and must fetch there own #6 with a sprite.

will smith_4

I don't know where I read this chuckler

But this thread made me think of it. Redone per my memory-The Chief Engineer of the biggest, most expensive cruise liner you you can imagine saved up enough for his wife and himself to go on an all expense paid 21 day trip on the very vessel he had served on for many years. Cost of the trip was $18,000.00-the trip of a lifetime. Ninth day out on the cruise, the boilers stop steaming altogether. The Engineering crew was stumped. Ship was dead in the water. After a full day and a half sitting idle (with the party still going on for free during this time), someone finally told the Capt. that the Chief was on board as a passenger. The Captain approached the Chief and asked him to look at the problem. He responded by tending a deal: "If I solve the problem, I want our cruise to be paid for entirely." To wit the Captain replied: "If you get our screws turning, the screws will stop turning on me-deal." They went to the boiler room, the Chief listened closely for a half an hour. Then suddenly he yelled at an apprentice -"Hand me that sledgehammer, wouldja-" He took the sledge, walked over to a pipe, and nailed it. Two minutes later, the boilers fired up, and the cruise sailed on.
Good to his word, the Captain made sure the Chief was to be paid for his service. He did, however, ask for an itemized bill so he could justify the cost. The Chief sent him one back, and this is how it read: "Cost of hitting pipe with hammer: $1.00 Knowing exactly where to hit the pipe: $17,999.00. Regards."

jim lockard

tis true

Helpers are kinda like outfielders in the game of baseball. 90% of the time they go unneeded til you get to the big play then your kinda glad they are there.

Wayco Wayne_2

It's hard

for the HO to see the benefit of the helper. If I were running back and forth to the truck my time on the job would be longer and I charge a lot more for my time. This HO just surprised me and I had no gathered thoughts for a response. I'm sure the customers are watching costs of things going up and up and are looking for a break somehow somewhere. In the meantime my costs to run the business keep going up and I gotta charge more to stay in business. Vicious cycle. WW

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Joel_3

yup

Questions like that are tuff esp. when your caught off guard . If you where FR not T+M however the customer would not have known if the apprectice was payed or did it for free and the price would have been agreed upon upfront and there would have been no question asked to begin with. Saving you from getting stuck in that position.

We have a girl friday , a book keeper , an owner,comfort consultant (me) etc. All are payed and they never even see the job . That cost is part of the rate along with the adds, office supplies, insurance etc. Homeowners are wierd they don't question what those folks get payed for or where the money comes from yet they question the helper.

That's why I like FR more and more ,i'm tired of answering all those stupid questions .

Yes everything is going way up for the homeowner but it is for us too . So you've just got to cover it . Our install prices are going way up from the cost of material alone . No more 10 SEER condensors , oil tanks have doubled in price in under two years .Fittings have gone way up , I just ordered a boiler model i hadn't ordered since June and discovered it had gone up about 400$ (ouch).

I'm going to see a guy monday I quoted last year he wants to know if the price will be the same i reviewd his quote . If i left the price the same our profit would be NEGATIVE 3% Ya right it's not going up.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Anthony Menafro

Helpers

I think that a helper rate should be considered on T&M pricing.When helpers are used properly, they are invaluable. When they are sent as a means to "get them out of the office" and billed as "A" mechanics, this becomes a problem. I have said for years that you have to charge for the people that you use according to their talent level. Once you get into flat rate,these problems seldom arise.

Anthony Menafro

Christian Egli_2

It's like pulling teeth

Any excuse will do to hunt for a little discount. There are customers who always try. It really has nothing related with the work you did. The first seemingly useful opportunity to make us feel guilty about our invoices is enough.

I've always wondered if these people do this to their dentist. I suspect they do.

It is corrosive to my will to do good work, after all if they wanted a discount, they should have bargained up front before work started, no? Even offering to do the helping-hand work themselves.

To de-fuse the situation once it becomes clear they only want a discount, ask if they have any valued-customer coupon. If not, then it is up to you if you want, to be extra nice and honor the ($15.00) off discount.

Then everyone should be happy. For the customer, it should be a happy memory.

You could also propose a payment plan, if it seems to be a cash problem for the customer.

Otherwise explaining cost things is nearly fruitless and a waste of your time. Anything beyond a simple an "insurance or safety rule that wants a second person there in case of an accident" is really beside the point.

On the other hand, a tip from the homeowner for the helper is actually appropriate and considerate, just like tipping a bell boy, it is a service industry after all. For me, I like when doughnuts and drinks are offered, it's a nice pleasant touch, an unconditional "I like you" signal.

And since doughnuts are bad for cavities, we're back to pulling teeth... Oh well.

Douglas Hicks

Too bad he did not voice his objections at the start of the job. Then you could have sent the helper away and used the homeowner. Think how much time that would have saved, sending someone who could not tell a tee from a union to get parts out of the truck. Or to help hold the frammis apart from the whoziz. On a recent job, my helper and I changed places, he was running the job and I was the helper. That gives him a different outlook and confidence for when I send him to do a sprinkler repair by himself.

fireguy

Steve_35

Bill flat rate and the question disappears

jeff_25

tell them to call

tell them to call there lawyer there going to be bill for the phone time along with every thing else or the dr or better yet go to the hospital

Wayco Wayne_2

Flat Rate

I have recently been considering going Flat Rate. Is there a FR compnay that does both HVAC and Hydronic. I'm not a plumber and dont need that side of things. WW

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"