keyspan

Danny J. Ramirez

Hi Bob,
I hope you remember me. Just the same I urge you to give this issue with Keyspan as much publicity as you can get. Go to your PHCC association and the trade magazines. See if they will give you any space in their publications. Contact the NYS business councils and state opperated agencies that gave you permission to use the name(s). Don't do it over the phone, get an answer in writing. Find out if Newsday will do the same. Sometimes they have research people that will get info any if it makes good news "Eureka" you get some exposure and maybe someone to wake up in the large companies trying to give it to you.
Don't even wait, see if you can get an attorney that will take the case on without a retainer. Promise him all the procedes if needed. Sue them first!!!!!!!!
Call the New York State Bar Association and ask for lawyer referral if needed 518-463-3200. This is a faternal organization and has nothing to do with the state government.

Dan

Robert Steinhardt

keyspan

Keyspan has reached a new level; we were served a summons and complaint, to appear in NYS supreme court to defend our right to use our company name, Long Island Plumbing Authority inc. which keyspan and their attorneys are claiming is too close to Long Island Power Authority (power-plumbing I don’t see it)….charging trade mark infringements and confusing the general public in addition we own keyspanplumber.com which we use in connection with our gas service business and boiler replacements, well they want that too! (Surprised? )For the very same reasons. Now the kicker is keyspan has paid for our co-op advertising for over two years which they had approved and paid me for using the very same name they now want to claim. keyspan even had us listed on their web site as a recommended contractor…(keyspan has since removed us) …keyspan once again is trying to change the way we plumbers do business by now telling us what names we may use and not use….

Empire_2

WOW???

LOND ISLAND, sorry but that is A PLACE OF BUSINESS and most of all the only thing that seperates you from and other biz is the latter part of your name, WHICH must have been researched and accepted by the NYS business offices. SO what you can expect is that you the little guy will be sued even more by: Long Island Transit Authority, L.I Sanitation, L.I. Public health Dept, L.I. Animal Control,...ETC>.......................................................................................................... WELCOME TO NEW YORK where getting screwed is supposed to be for your own good!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I'm In Buffalo, and this entire state is Business Unfriendly. Just in case you didn't know..
Let me know what happens. Get a good Attourney, but keep in mind you will never win against a Dianasore State Like NEW YORK.. I feel your Pain. Just as an example: I know of 4 companies that use the name Western New York in the first part of their title. So Western New York performing Arts, Western New York Municipl Housing which are all gov. funded and receive state aid will soon sue these companies to. If it weren't for family, I would relocate myself to a better business friendly environment. The Moon sounds good right about now

DanHolohan

I've known Bob

for 30 years. What Keyspan is trying to do to him stinks. They have lawyers on retainer. Bob now has to spend a lot of money trying to defend what he rightfully owns, and has spent years building.

I hope "David" wins this one. This stinks.

Empire_2

That's only the start Dan

I see it as a no brainer that the lawsuit is frivalous but then again if he fights?,....Well like I said before, you are trying to battle a State which has the backing of every GREASED politician in their back pocket. I would think that a fight would cost major dollars and if by chance an attourney would defend this man,... I would also counter sue for every defending $cost emaginable . In his origional post he stated not only was the name cleared by NYS by legally registering the company name, but also the state included him in various advertising endevors. Years later they decided that here is a man and his company that is profiting on the name LONGISLAND + some wording after that. This is probably redicuals, but why can't he sue LongIsland for them infrenging on his approved Company name????????? I hope that there is justice in this case for the people that try to honestly do business, follow the laws of the state to the "T" and try to make a business thrive only to be "RAILROADED" by the Bully.
P.S. Dan I hope that if this man made any contributions to you daughter and her students in the name in which he is being sued, well that credit should go to LONG ISLAND period....

DanHolohan

He has to come up with

$50,000 to defend himself. That's just for starters.

How many small plumbing & heating shops can do that?

Empire_2

Can you say \"Audit\" ?

Any waves will surely give this man a very large head ache. Government is a nasty hangover that needs to be cured. If it is cancerous, it need to be CUT OUT!!!
Thanks Mike T.

Dave Yates (PAH)

common sense

So, who was named first? 50K to defend? That's nuts. If I had the name first, I'd show up and plead my case to the Judge without hiring a mouthpiece. They win, I'd appeal. Then I'd file a counter-suit. No matter if the law-dogs are on retainer, the more you work them, the more they'll have to charge for that retainer. I'm with you Dan, the PHCC needs to pony up on this one.

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J.C.A._3

Now the BIG question.....

Will common sense rule? Like Mr. Milne keeps telling me....Common sense ain't so common.

The Barristers will be the only ones making any money off of this .Sad, but true.Chris

chuck shaw

The Law

A system made for lawyers, by lawyers. They are the only ones who will ever come out ahead in this.

JMO

Chuck

DanHolohan

It's not even

the same name. They just want it. Gobble, gobble, gobble.

Steve Garson

As a person who has done a bit of intellectual property law, my guess is that the keyspanplumbers.com is not very defensable against Keyspan Energy. But the primary name of your business, that should be defensable. My opinion, if you are willing to take a chance on losing in exchange for saving legal fees, if defend it yourself. If you take the time to read and learn, you can build a case.

Most suits are this nature are designed to get people to cave in out of fear of legal fees. People just roll over. Go to nolo.com and get some info. Maybe find a lawyer friend to write a rebuttal letter for free. You can win and not pay big bucks. But you need to prepare, intellectually and emotionally.

Mad Dog_2

Are you a PHCC member Bob?

It would be nice to have them in your corner. I agree with Mike T. NYS is very business unfriendly. and, with PAH, I would save the $$$ and try defending yourself. Just Curious, Bob, how long have you legally used that name? I've seen you around for quite a while, perhaps there is a statute of limitations. Good luck Bob, keep us posted. Mad Dog

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DanHolohan

He is

a PHCC member.

Matt, this would be like Belmont Raceway taking you to court because you call your company, "Triple Crown Plumbing & Heating."

DanHolohan

Only six guys lend support to a fellow tradesman?

And what if it were to happen to you?

Paul Rohrs_4

I'm On-Board with my support.....

Keyspan has always been someone I have kept an eye on. "Absolute power corrupts absolute".

I believe the State Attorney General should be notified. This person SHOULD NOT be in the "back-pocket" of big business. I also believe that some well place phone calls to local print media and radio could stir up a hornets nest of positive attention for you.

Just remember, David (of David & Goliath) had to use only one small stone to slay the giant.

We have recently started a new company with all of the (planned for) associated start-up costs. My resources are somewhat tied up, but I really believe you have to make your needs known. I promise I will do what I can because you are not alone in this and should not be alone.

Regards,

PR

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Robert O'Connor_7

keyspan

If the plumber had the name first, its a no brainer. However that being said, fighting the utility unfortunatly will probably not have a favorable outcome. The PHCC is not gonna go to bat (with any substantial support that is) and I'm sure as we all know the plumbing industry is about as cut throat as you could get and I for one would not count on significant support there either. I'm usually not one to give up easily but in light of utilities being protected by federal law (in certain situations, I belive this being one of them) I'd be wary of spending alot of money (on an attorney that is) roll the dice show up pro se and see where it leads. In New Jersey the utilities hammered the local plumbers pushing a significant number out of business by doing not only heating and air installs but now installing water heaters and providing service I'm just afraid of what's next. i'm also afraid for this industry and the effects these quasi public/private companies are doing. You have my support in this matter and any resources I could provide I will it is just a sad day for ALL the david's out there.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

John R. Hall

Dan

You all have my moral support. As you may know, The News has to take the high road and report on both sides of the issue, otherwise it becomes a can of worms and sets us up for possible litigation down the road. I'll do what I can.

Mad Dog_2

Very dissapointing that the PHCC can't do more

for him. Yep, if the Racetrack and I were in the same business, that would probably be the case. As Dan said, what if it were one of us: that reminds me of a story my mother always told us.....it was about standing up for the minority - the underdog, and I believe it came from The Holocaust....."First they came for the homosexuals, and I said nothing.....then they came for the gypsies, and I said nothing...then the mentally retarded, then the jews, ...still I said nothing. Then one day, they came for me....and there was no one left to stand up for me...." You'll get the picture? Do what you can because someday this may be you and your company. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

I agree with Steve............................

The Web address may be a losing battle, and it might serve you well to just focus on the business name. My 2 cents. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

I did worry about that when I first incorporated

But I was advised it was ok due to the fact there were countless other "Triple Crown" businesses - especially surrounding the racetrack. Furthermore, and I think this is the key (No pun intended) The racetrack is not plying the same trade, if they were or if we started up a "competitive" racetrack nearby using that name, we'd be in a legal fight too. If you ride on Hempstead and Jericho Tpkes around here you'll see a Triple Crown Diner, Triple Crown Bar, Triple Crown Horse feed, Triple Crown Movers. I think it enhances their image and keeps racing and the Triple Crown races in people's minds, i.e., it almost like free advertising for them. If it hurt them in any way, that would be another issue. Mad Dog

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DanHolohan

It's the

Long Island Power Authority that's going after him. That's a public utility. How could anyone possibly confuse the electric company with a small plumbing shop?

The Long Island Power Authority

The Long Island Plumbing Authority

LILCO sold its gas business to Brooklyn Union Gas and became LIPA, which sells only electricity. Brooklyn Union Gas then became Keyspan. The two companies have nothing to do with each other. One is a publically traded corporation; the other is an electric utility.

Bullies working together against a little guy. It stinks.

Mad Dog_2

Yes, but they do plumbing and heating now

through a subsidiary although the name is different. Once again, they don't want ANY competetion. The PHCC fought successfully to level the playing field with the utility, getting them out of the gas service business. Boy Bob could really use their backing now. If I still belonged, I'd bring it up at the next meeting. Any Local PHCC guys out there? Yes it stinks..... stinks to high heaven. Mad Dog

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Ken_8

I was a State Director

in the NJ PHCC for 10 years.

While extremely active, I found the HVAC and wet heat members, which numbered 40% of the entire NJ membership (the 60% being "just plumbers"), attempted to form a comittee/lobby against the utilities to stop subsidizing their service work with electric and gas rate-payer income. While we talked and met about the approach for five (wasted) years, we never came up with a feasible way to get a bill sponsored, get a legislater to voice our concerns over the balatantly improper monopolistic and unfair competition regualtions already on the books and after 10 years of seeing PHCC members leave in droves, our local county chapter collapse by default, it occurred to me I was casting pearls before swine. I resigned in disgust. The organization I had joined and served for 10 years would not agree that utilities that cross subsidize the sale of electricity and gas - with the service side of their empire - at the expense of 40% or more of the NJ-PHCC members they were supposed to represent was disconcerting at best!

When our own associations shoot themselves in the foot, who can withstand the onslaught? No wonder the NJ-PHCC went from close to 2,000 members to less than 500!

I for one can (and do) eat utility service competition's lunch every day.

They are so inept, so inefficient, have such enourmous overhead, they are easy pickens, IMHO.

The end result? NUI/E'Town Gas Company in northern NJ went out of business, sold the bankrupt shell to a Texas conglomerate AGL, and now does NO service or installs - THEY SUBCONTRACT TO ME, AND GUYS LIKE ME!

The other major utility, PSE&G? They are in financial trouble and have warned all their service personel, that layoffs are likely. Their consumer's reputation of incompetence at all levels has been rampant. Three day response times for "no heat" calls in winter is typical.

Their lunch is a very tasty one indeed.

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Danny J. Ramirez

LIPA and Keyspan

Bob,
Start pumping out the letters to your local officials. Legislators, assembly, senators, etc.

Contact Albany county legal department:
Department of Law
Office of the County Attorney
112 State St
Rm 900
Albany, NY 12207

Phone: (518) 447-7110
Fax: (518) 447-5564

Be pro-active on this.

Dan

Kal Row

rule to trademarks and patents...

unless you vigorously defend them any time someone even gets close, you will loose them, this is an age old rule, - this is usually done by a independent specialized legal firm that has nothing to do with the rest of the company’s legal handlings, thus the seeming contradiction of on the one hand the company is recommending you, and on the other hand, going after you, a completely independent firm is going after you that has nothing to do with their other legal matters – my advice to you is, unless you find a firm that is willing to fight for a cut of possible punitive damages, then give it up – you simply don’t have enough money – there was a fast food restaurant in Brooklyn NY called “mcflieshig’s” and McDonalds made them change it – so there

Danny J. Ramirez

LIPA and Keyspan

Bob, the following is a link to nys federal, state and local government websites.
http://www.state.ny.us/access.html

Hey here's an idea. Talk to your legal council and see if you can "copyright" the name. Then they can "whistle dixie".
http://www.mycorporation.com/

Dan

JOHN PITCHER_2

KEYSPAN

I DONT KNOW IF ANYONE IS AWARE THAT KEYSPAN IS IN THE PLUMBING BUSINESS DBA WDF/GREEN MECHANICAL. YOU MAY HAVE A NAME THAT THEY REALLY WANT. STICK TO YOUR GUNS. WE HERE AT THE WALL KNOW WE HEARD IT HERE FIRST AND THAT MAY BE ALL YOU NEED TO PROVE TRADEMARK. YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO USE IT BUT NEITHER WILL THEY UNLESS THEY BUY IT

Robert Steinhardt

keyspan

Hello Danny,
Thanks for the support and thoughts……..I have reached out to some of the local media and the local officials for support….the PHCC……. well that’s other story [but I think someone said it well in a prior posting ……But this fight is not just about my business, this is about all of the independent contractors and the way keyspan wants to shape the competition and control the market.

Bob

Robert Steinhardt

keyspan

Hello Danny,
Thanks for the support and thoughts……..I have reached out to some of the local media and the local officials for support….the PHCC……. well that’s other story [but I think someone said it well in a prior posting ……But this fight is not just about my business, this is about all of the independent contractors and the way keyspan wants to shape the competition and control the market.

Bob

Terrence Walker

A Joke

This is just another typical battle that every entrepreneur small businessman unfortunately faces. Large businesses bully the competition out of the way behind the scenes of the media. I have personally seen it happen to my father as CVS was still planting stores in every community. Each and every one of us probably know of someone who has been “bullied” by a large corporation in one way or another. I wish for someone to post a dozen addresses so that myself and anyone else who wishes to speak out against the politicians and senators that endorse these destructive actions of Keyspan. LONG ISLAND PLUMBING AUTHORITY is no different than another business here on long island named Long Island Plumbing Distributors. You make the decision does this all sound logical. I believe that there are other motives behind this bold move of Keyspan. With enough public support, Keyspan could give up on this battle, due to fears of degrading their public relations, its a far shot but definitely a possibility.