Vitodens

Simply Rad_2

Yes the little apprentice likes his heating system. Unfortunately he likes the excalvating more. He is now working with the deck piers. Hopefully we can keep the child labor force off site and they can get the home completed.
I would really like to try and use the Oventrope unitbox on the next project. This will furthur achieve the goal of getting closer to constant circ. Has anyone used this product.
The only other thing I wish I would have done was install a galvanized board for the wall. I have done this before and it would go along with the stylish home decor. I do not know why I didn't. Next time.
One last thought today it hot summer 85 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. Last Sunday it was snowing and very cold around 40 degrees. Some of the mountain passes actually closed briefly. Summer in the Rockies.
Jeffrey

Simply Rad_2

Vitodens Pics

This house had no mechanical room or space on the blue prints-how it was passed by the planning commssion I do not know. I had one choice the garage wall. One thing though every sub one the job had to use that wall during rough. I was very limited on space so that is why I used a Roth manifold as my main header whcih keep things tight. It is perfect for smaller system and I have precise flow control of each zone.
I have seen alot of Vito pics lately and I have some questions. I haven't seen any air separators or LWCO-why? Am I being to redondent with my install.

There are 7 radiant zone with metal decking with 4" of concrete. The great part is the concrete is the finish flooring. So my heating curve will be about a .6 or .7. After talking to my rep I decided to try the RS sensor on my largest zone and use true constant circ. Can't wait to see how the system performs. I have one other system with Warmboard along with the RS control-it works great.
Thanks Jeffrey

hr

Very nice install and

really nice photo presentation. It would make a nice RPA showcase entry.

There seems to be a bit of confusion, around hydronic circles, about the need for or, use of, that low loss header. Did you contact the rep or Viessmann directly to see if, when, and how, it changes the operation of the system. Can other brands or methods be used,etc?

That V system sure does fit the "look" of the house. Nice job!

hot rod

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Unknown

Jeff, I can't see your attachment.

It comes through as a HUGE text file. What type of file is a .eml?

Attachments on the Wall work best as .jpg or .gif

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Simply Rad_2

Low water cut off

Hot Rod
I have been reading alot of threads and after talking to James at Viessmann I understand now why you need to use the low loss header. The Viessmann system is designed specifically to create and move the heat at such a precise rate. The low loss decouples the boiler from the system so it can do this. Anyways, I was asking about the use of low water cut off and condensate neutralizers. I have been using both just because! My local codes do not inforce their use but I believe they should be installed in the system.
As for Gary I believe it is a JPEG file. I email a few people and you are the only one who could not open it. let me know.
Jeffrey

Sweet_3

I wasn't able to open the file either.

Simply Rad_2

Try these pics

Hey you guys with the old small computers. Try these pictures!
Jeffrey

Paul Pollets

No Pics!!

Same, can't see the pics in either version. Submit the pics as a jpeg. file....

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Bob Eh?

Picture Problems.....

I believe you are posting a copy of an Email message ( .eml format). Most browsers either can't or won't open these (security risk). This is not a "News Group" like one encounters on your local news server where the .eml format is just fine.....

What you need to do is save the pictures as .jpg files and attach those when you compose your message.

jerry scharf_3

condensate neutralizers

Jeffrey,

If you dump the condensate outside, there's only a local planting issue. If you run it down the drain, condensate neutralizers are a good thing. If there is any metal down stream of the condensate (like cast iron), there are going to be problems in the years ahead for the owner if you skip it. Condensate is acidic enough to remove all the metal over time. I have old cast iron service to the house, and I really don't want to dig it up. If the owner has all plastic DWV and want to move your municipality's sewer pipe replacement schedule ahead, then dump away.

I have not installed a vitodens, but with other condensing boilers they include a water pressure switch that will cut out the boiler. I think this obviates the need for a LWCO. I think of LWCOs for boilers who don't have the level of smarts that modultaing boilers do.

As for inspectors, they are not modern heating experts. They may or may not know what a condensate neutralizer is or when it should be installed. There is some exposure to it due to the number of 90+ furnaces. Then again, somebody passed my neighbors 90+ install that had a copper condensate drain line. Few would know what a LWCO is. They do know where the boiler switch must be.

jerry

btw, I couldn't see the picture either. My browser trusts very few types of attachments, and .emls are certinaly not one of them. Then again, this machine isn't running windows and I'm not sure I would have something that could view it. jpeg files are the best for attaching pictures here.

Unknown

Jeff,

I'm NOT running an "old or small computer" It's a G5.

You want to post pictures here, you best re-format them because we can't see them.

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Simply Rad_2

One last try

Just joking about your small computer.
Hopefully these work.
Jeffrey

Sweet_3

Guess the ol crank start finally got this here computer

up and running. Just kidding, that look's real nice. One question about the Viess boiler, does it come with a dedicated pump for indirect?? Or am I missing something. Thanks

Unknown

A few questions & comments.

Nice minimalistic house. Where in town does it sit?

* You've got an analog temperature gauge for every supply & return on this system. Why do you feel the need for so many temperature gauges when the Comfortrol will give you all the information you need by using the system Status keys?

* That a pressure activated bypass you're using (just above the manifold.) What brand is it?

* What will you be wiring the thermal actuators into?

I'd only use an external LWCO on this machine if the local authority were to mandate them. There is an internal pressure/flow switch on the Vitodens which makes the LWCO redundant. It also has thermal trip switches that will not allow the boiler to fire without the radial HX completely free of air making it impossible to dry fire this boiler without bypassing these safeties which I STRONGLY recommend you never do! It go BOOM!!!

You may want to try using one of Radiant Engineering' Low Loss headers next time. Better design IMO and made of stainless steel. You can save about 3.25" of space on both sides as well as delete the independent MBR I see you've used on the distribution side of V's LLH.

Because the Vitodens's HX is such a bugger to remove air from, you might want to use a bypass around the auto-fill valve next time. This allows a much more powerful purging process whilst commissioning.

You might want to put a turn down 90º on the vent of the back-flow preventer so it won't ever get anything wet.

You should also consider opting for 1/4 turn (ball type) boiler drains. They won't drip like the ones with washers & bibb screws do after a few years/turns. Plus, you can introduce chemical additives through them without fear of striping off the washer and having it lodge somewhere in the radial HX :-o

I really like how you hid a lot of the piping inside of that wall. It would have been so much easier for you to have kept them exposed and just pipe it up. Don't you just love how many fittings you have to use on the bottom of the Vitodens just to get piping in copper! How on earth did you keep that white wall so darned clean?

I'd feel much more comfortable if the contractor would put in some sort of a (sturdy) barrier so that your equipment can't get damaged by the car.

Oh, yeah: Your binder doesn't sit squarely in the tray and the Vito-vent will NOT meet code where you have it terminated now;-)

This is one of your best works so far Jeffery. I see an RPA System Showcase award in your future.


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Simply Rad_2

Q and A

Sweet-the viessmann uses a diverting valve along with an internal pump to control the system. The diverting valve goes between heating and dhw.

gary I just like to know my delta t's everywhere in the system. Customers like seeing gauges. Maybe it is redondent.
The by-pass is a Sparco/Honeywell brand.

For the wiring I am going to use the plastic wiring channel. And yes I have a few things to finsh like the vent pipe(waiting for a set of 45's) and the backflow relief.
Gary what is your take on the air separator. You just wrote last week about what a hard time you have getting the boiler purged . This is my third Vitodens and I am trying to figure out the best distribution system. Yes, the low loss headers made by Viessmann are very big and hard to pipe-the off set doesn't fit traditional unistrut. One trick I did learn is to install the low loss insulation first and then mount. One other great feature I did discover is the use of the room temp dial. I am using a .7 heating curve. Look at the graph for the heating cuve , look at .7 and see what happens when you change the room temp from 68 to 90. The supply temp basically max's. With the Warmboard system this can work very well for very fast heat. THe customer leaves quite often-vacations for with the system set up like I described he can come home and heat the house up VERY quick using only the room temp dial.
Gotta go thanks for the input. Enjoy you summertime.
Jeffrey

hr

The young apprentice in wide eyed wonder

is a great touch in pic #2. A nice way for the homeowners to track the age of their system and home, and child

hot rod

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Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Very nice install

You can also use a phone dialer connected to the external demand switch to put the boiler in and out of setback.

The nice thing about having an automatic air vent in the LLH is that it purges air from both sides. Viessmann has that air vent on the boiler, but sometimes it works, sometimes not so well. Caleffi makes a nice Hydro Separator also. It's somewhat expensive IMO.

That's just about the cleanest use of a Roth manifold in that type of application that I've seen. The Cv rating isn't high enough for larger zones. Caleffi has some high flow brass manifolds that match their 3/4 thermal zone valves Cv rating (3.4 vs 1.7 I believe).

Very nice

-Andrew