Freeze damaged tubing

Rick Kelly_3

Thanks for the suggestions guys and I agree with you Gary. Since I think this install is kaput, I'm looking to gain some experience by using someone else's guinea pig. If I choose the best band-aid approach, my client might buy 3 or 5 or 10 years or 1 year of borrowed time. I think one thing is for sure, where the oxygen barrier is concerned, as we say in NY, fuggedaboudit. These steel boilers have already run for two years with this "split-system".

Rick Kelly_3

Freeze damaged tubing

Has anyone ever come across a product or process to internally repair freeze compromised Pex tubing?

Seems a contractor kept pressurized water in the tubing after a pour during a freezing spell. Two years later, water stains are beginning to show all over it's 40,000 sq. ft. surfaces. I've done extensive pressure loss testing and the results aren't good.

Since this job is most likely kaput, I was toying with the idea of pumping through a plastic based coating that is used for gas tank repair. For all I know, it might turn the tubing to mush. I have a strong background in organic chemistry so I will do some research before I proceed. Best case, the system might be able to be put in the living on borrowed time catagory.

GMcD

Possibly epoxy re-lining

You might take a look at the epoxy re-lining approach. Given that the tube is in concrete and not moving around too much, the epoxy should stay rigid enough to plug the leaks. I doubt that the epoxy will bond well to the PEX material, so it would be a band-aid at best.

Another, more permanent fix would depend on the tube size involved. If it is 5/8" (15mm) or bigger tube, you could slip some new 1/2" or 3/8 PEX inside the old tube. Flow and heat capacity will be compromised, but it would be a permanent fix.

Christian Egli

Goo for pipes

Alternately you could try to seal the concrete slab.

If you could pour your sealing juices from the outside through cracks in the slab where you see the stains, and with lots of hope, maybe the sealant would form a coat on the outside of the pipe. Then, if you would run the system with very very little pressure, it could possibly hold.

You could help the sealant get nearer the crack by sucking a vacuum in the pipe.

New idea,

What if you used super hard water, make it even artificially harder. Now, the slow leak will seal itself (again with lots of hope) due to the lime build up on the outside of the crack. You might even get a lime build up on the inside of the pipe which will definitely help with leaks.

I don't think this method would be instantaneous.

Have fun toying around with the pipes.

Christian Egli

Mitch_4

oh boy...

My guess would be ditch the boiler, and install a forced air furnace and connect all piping to the plenum..set the blower to high, and hope you can circulate warn air..

Just kidding. I have never heard of any product to fix multiple leaks except remove and replace.

Empire_2

Oh Boy for me to

If the pressure was kept on the tubing during this freezeeee, It should have never have froze if that makes any sease. adding pressure to the line will lower the freezing point if and I mean if the pressure HOLDS.. Guy's check my thinking, I may be incorrect. I am in A/C lock mode and may be incorrect..Plus it's "Beer Thirty" and I was just trying to help....:)
Mike T

hr

How many loops?

did you isolate and pressure check every loop? How many leak? You may be able to loose a few loops and still heat the space.

I have used a Fernox product for repairing hydronic tube leaks, used to be sold by Heatway. Sometimes it work, other times not. Depends, I suppose on how many, and how big of splits.

I think it was meant for those insect holes

Plenty of pipe relining companies advertise in the trade journals. One company had a booth at last years RadFest in Colorado. Contact them to see if pex is reline-able. It forms a new fluid channel inside the old, regardless of the condition.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Rick,

It's kaput.

Give it up. No way this thing can be saved. Even if you get it repaired temporarily, what have you gained? Wouldn't trust it as a primary heat source especially in NY. Lining PEX????? Just say NO.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Harold

Fix the concrete

There are materials (the only brand I know off hand is Moxie) that claim to form a dense crystal structure in concrete that completely seals the concrete against moisture migration. If you filled the tubes with this stuff and let it sit, it may make a difference. If there are actual cracks to the surface of the concrete this probably will not help. But if you get the locations where the water is migrating through the concrete by diffusion you could then try to address any remaining wet spots with an injected crack sealant or dig out some concrete. Even if the water is migrating along the pex or cracks contained within the pour, the Moxie should follow the same paths and seal the interface.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

To Prevent Water Freezing Via Pressure

takes a LOT of pressure.

Approximately 816 psi to lower the freezing point to 31°F.

Much easier to keep it from boiling via pressure because the volume difference between the liquid and gasseous water is MUCH greater than between liquid and solid water.

One of the many, many curiosities of water is that when under pressure it actually expands more greatly when it changes to ice. So, even if you manage enough pressure to retard freezing a little bit, once you start freezing, the pressure of the remaining water rises incredibly.

Empire_2

Mike

Good to know that information. I never really thought of it like that.

Rick Kelly_3

freeze damaged tubing

One last concept concerning this thread.

I remember in the past an automotive anti-freeze that contained a coagulating sealant that sealed upon open exposure to air. Like a typical hydronic system, the automotive cooling system actually operates at higher temps and pressures. I wouldn't be too keen about pumping poison through the system but it would seem like an cheap experiment.

GMcD

\"Bars-Leak\"

I recall that goop- kind of a viscous brown liquid with jelly-like lumps in it? Might be interesting how it might react with the PEX rather than the metallic components of a car engine.