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Fan in a can?

Mad Dog_2
Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,697
but why not just go total sealed combustion units. That would solve the "bad" combustion air problems and any possible flammables-danger from the solvents? I am partial to Field's Controls brand. Mad Dog

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Comments

  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Fan-in-a-can

    Any opinions about Tjernlund products? We currently are giving a quote on two WM PFG-6 PIN boilers and the reason for replacement was soot due to lack of combustion air in the space. The warehouse basement is filled with automotive parts ie: solvents (new in the box(s)) car batteries, cleaners ect.., so I'm suspect of using any indoor air for combustion cause of the potential of contamination (the boiler room is a cinder block construction separate from the storage area). I'm looking tward Tjerlund and came up with a PAI-5 + MAC-1E + UC-1. The equipment, 2 PFG-6 @ 305 ec.,= 610,000 + a 40,000 HWH total = 650,000 btu. The only other ??? factor(s) were there is a central vacuum system installed and the unit (you guessed it) is in the boiler room. Any thoughts? Installation recommendations? Comments?


    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Jed_2
    Jed_2 Member Posts: 781
    Not clear, Robert

    If the only reason for suggesting replacing boilers is "soot due to lack of combustion air in the space", why replace the boiler(s)? I like the Tjernlund, and have sent a couple out on jobs. They work great. No "can" sitting in the way. Just duct appropriately.

    Jed
  • Al Letellier
    Al Letellier Member Posts: 781
    Fan - a-can

    great unit and I've used a lot of them, but I agree with Mad Dog. If you're going to replace the boilers, why not go direct vent or sealed combustion???
    Also be aware that in commercial properties, the National Mechanical Code forbids the use of mechanical rooms as storage rooms for ANY materials.
    This code is often overlooked by a lot of contractors and inspectors alike, but rest assured that it does come up in litigations cases. Be careful.

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  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Jed.

    The old boiler was chugging along great until the owner installed a steel fire door apox. two years earlier. This boiler sooted up fast, the flue ways were IMO 85% blocked (we will not clean a GAS boiler over 20 yrs. old due to soot) it was of sufficient age and disrepair to warrant replacement. The customer was offered a high efficiency Ultra but did not bite, but did like the duel boiler medium efficiency idea though (suggest,,,then give em what they want).


    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Mad Dog.

    First let me say congrats on the new baby. I'm suprised you get enough sleep to even read the board. Great News!



    The customer was offered an Ultra (WM) but didn't like the price and suggested something less efficient but more fail safe (in terms of what if THIS boiler breaks) so we suggested two of em, hey, he liked the idea.

    The boiler room, is a block room, medium-tight as far as infiltration/construction goes. The solvents and other contaminates aren't really a problem,,YET, but the potential was there.

    Before I put anything about the fan-in-a-can in writing, I'm gonna check out the Field's Controls, thanx.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Al.

    Thanks for the reply Al. Nothing is being stored in this room, but it does/did (current door) directly communicate with the storage area. This was the owners thinking (or possibly his insurance carrier) by installing the (fire) door it would satisfy said requirement?? Ya got me, they call, we try and give solutions. The Ultra was suggested, but dismissed.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • jeff_51
    jeff_51 Member Posts: 545
    I agree closed combustion

    I don't care how much combustion air you bring in, unless you totaly seal the boiler room or use a closed combustion unit, you will have continuing problems
  • bob_44
    bob_44 Member Posts: 112
    Robert

    I would be sure to check codes. Supplying combustion air with a fan usually requires an engineered system approved by the local building authority. I'm sure they will require interlocks and proving switches. bob
  • Jim_47
    Jim_47 Member Posts: 244
    fan in a can...... central vacuum

    Bob, I'll let the others assist on the fan in a can. I install centrall vac systems. In 90% of the time the central vac has the ability to be vented outdoors. In 100% of my installations I provide this venting as part of the job, but as in boiler installs if the guy can save an hour and a few bucks some will cut the corners. If you are replacing the boilers vent the vacuum system outdoors. The boiler room will thank you for it.
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    I agree

    Go with sealed combustion units. We do alot of printing buildings and have found that anything but sealed comb. system will root out the metal components. The chemicals seem to reak havoc on the metal when burning fuel.
  • PSC Sealed combustion

    Have you looked at the PSC sealed combustion Peerless boiler? A real sleeper and really nice. Great pricing. Self reliant. I love this boiler in your application.

    wheels
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    sealed unit

    or I'd walk away from the work. There's too many volatiles that can/will wreak havoc with your equipment and, you know, it'll be your fault no matter how you tell em it will happen.



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  • tls_9
    tls_9 Member Posts: 89
    Bob, just curious......

    "we will not clean a GAS boiler over 20 yrs. old due to soot"

    will you expound an that?

    thanks

    tom
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    Just a thought

    But just ran across two EK-3's recently installed with make up air. Extremely quiet and neat package. And no I don't sell them...
  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    tls.

    Oil boilers we install, service and clean. We install many gas boilers but trying to clean one is another story. IMHO gas boilers were not intended to be cleaned like an oil boiler would be (much more difficult than oil & based on manufacturer). It is far more labor intensive to clean a gas unit of this size and age than it would be to install a new unit(s). I'm not saying I've never cleaned one, I'm saying if YOU were on the receiving end of our bill you would much rather spend your money on our installation.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    Jim.

    Thanks for the reply. I noticed the vac system is not vented but do see the tapping. This will either be incorporated into the proposal or charged out as an extra.

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Robert O'Connor_7
    Robert O'Connor_7 Member Posts: 688
    bob

    This is a use group that falls within our licensure. Thanks for the heads up though...

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
This discussion has been closed.