Opinions needed (buried oil tank)

Wayne M. Lawrence

Hi, I agree with you oil company to put an oil tank in the basement. The fact that your buried tank is not yet leaking, you may be able to abandon it with out having to dig up your yard. Find out if you are able to fill it with foam. If you were to switch to natural gas, you would still have the cost of abandoning the tank, and possibly have to have a chimney liner installed as well. It is very hard to sell a home with a buried tank. It would be an advantage to do this before a leak happens in the tank or return line.

mikeca

Opinions needed (buried oil tank)

I have a decision to make and would appreciate some input.
Currently my house is heated with oil heat and I have a buried oil tank (1050 gal.) buried in my front yard. The City Fire dept. records show it was installed in 1927!!
The tank was tested last year and passed but I have had problems with clogged filters/nozzles/lines etc. the last few seasons. My oil company is recommending I abandon it and put a tank in the basement.
I also have natural gas in the house and that is what my hot water heater uses. Would it make more sense to change to a natural gas boiler.
My heating system is one pipe steam, the current boiler is a Weil-Mclain SGO-4.

Jason_15

Oil tank

Did they say how much a new oil tank costs? Whether or not you should switch to gas depends a lot on where you live, and personal preference. Right now in the Northeast oil is a cheaper bet, while in the Midwest and West gas is generally cheaper. In my area gas is cheaper for now, but I may switch to oil due to personal preference, if the tank isn't too expensive. I need to replace my boiler anyway, so now would be the time to do it.

lchmb

Oil

Oil is and would be my choice. I wouldn't give second thought to putting a tank in the cellar. Small cost now to save down the road..IMHO

Big Ed

Tank

I concur....

Tank in the basement..Bottom feed...pitch the tank toward the valve. New tank , put in new oil . Don't pump from the oil tank to the new one. Set the new tank up and fill it but don 't hook it up to the burner untill the old one runs dry...

You want a large tank , you can install two tanks to hold 550 gall, but check with your local codes...

Steve Garson

Check out the rectangular tanks with secondary safety lining. Real space efficient.

Keith_8

If possible

Yank the tank. If you can get access to the UST pull it out. Sometimes it's not an option but if it is my vote is to pull the old one, get the closure report and put it behind you. It's only a matter of time and the banks won't want to finance a mortgage with an abandoned UST.

Just my opinion,

Keith

eric_2

First hand experience

I am currently going through the removal of a buried oil tank that was found to be a leaker. What a nightmare!! You definitely want to get rid of the old buried one before it's too late. My personal choice is still oil though. Deal with the old tank now and save yourself a lot of headaches and insurance letters stating everything that is not covered. Good luck!

Joe Brix

SInce you have steam

There's no efficency gain by going to nat gas. I like the idea of getting a new tank but staying on the old one until you run it dry. Maybe get a good spin on oil filter and change it every month until you're done with the old tank.

Constantin

Agreed...

Steam heat is one of those instances where the fuel source (oil or gas) will have little to no effect on efficiency, as none of the steamers on the market make it above ~82% AFUE.

Thus, I'd take a look at the local fuel prices and then make a comparison based on the BTU content of the fuel. Fuel Oil #2 has about 140kBTU of fuel per gallon while natural gas weighs in at 100kBTU/Therm. Plus, oil gives you a choice of suppliers, while natural gas usually locks you into one monopoly or the other.

When I recently renovated my home, I stayed with oil but upgraded the tank to two Roth 275 Gallon units. Virtually leakproof, easy to get into homes (fit through most doorways and are light), and simple to install.

Firedragon_4

Check this site out:

http://www.granbytanks.com/usa/home.shtml

They make both the rectangualr style and conventional tanks. I love the new double-wall tanks but the 20+ tank that these people make is quite the tank. I was very impressed with it at NEFI and will probably go with one myself, soon!

A ten year warranty over the conventional one year was a boon for homeowners, I think the 20 will be even more so, JMO!

BTW, I agree with all of the other posters as of today. The two most important statements are, DO NOT leave the UST in the ground and do not reuse the oil.

I work on spills and heating issues every day and you just don't want to go there, FACT!

www.firedragonent.com

Unknown

Keep OIL!

Standard oil efficiency... 86%

Standard Nat Gas Efficiency... 82%

Put a Schuetz (www.schuetztanksus.com) or a Roth (www.roth-us.com) tank in. The cost is comparitive to a standard 275 12GA steel tank but they come with dual containment and a 10 year clean-up insurance policy (held by an independant third party)if the tank were to break under warranty.

Tom Elam

DIG IT UP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We bought our 45 year old home in Maryland Feb 2002. The buried fuel tank was tested for leaks and passed.

Last Aug 2004 we had the natural gas main line run to our property. We replaced the original 1957 American Standard cast iron oil burning boiler with a gas fired Weil McClain Ultra 155. The first full winter in the house (2003-2004) we burned 1150 gallons of oil it cost on average $1.41/gallon around $1650.00 for the season. This past season we have spent about $850.00 to heat the house with gas. I was chating with my nieghbor the other day and she just paid $2.41/gallon for oil. You do the math.

Now the bad news. When you take a buried tank out of service you MUST dig it up within 1 year. I found an Enviromental clean up company that did it for $1200.00 (a great deal). Unfortunatly the smell of fuel oil filled the air as they dug the dirt from around the tank. The dirt around the tank was saturated with oil. They dug down about 10 more feet below the tank and you could still smell the fuel in the soil. I had a 40 ton mound of contaninated soil in my front yard (not part of the tank removal deal). It was a real conversation piece. The bottom of the tank looked like it had been blasted by 2 buckshot shells. Water condenses in the top of the tank and the drops drip down through the fuel to the tank bottom where the water attacks the steel.
So I called the guy that said the tank was good and told him about my little enviro disaster. His responce "You can't prove when the tank started to leak. It may have leaked after the test". What a racket. My lawyer said the same thing.

Moral of the story; unless your 90 year old tank is stainless steel it is leaking now and has been for probally 65 years. Get it out of the ground now.

Tom Elam

DIG IT UP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We bought our 45 year old home in Maryland Feb 2002. The buried fuel tank was tested for leaks and passed.

Last Aug 2004 we had the natural gas main line run to our property. We replaced the original 1957 American Standard cast iron oil burning boiler with a gas fired Weil McClain Ultra 155. The first full winter in the house (2003-2004) we burned 1150 gallons of oil it cost on average $1.41/gallon around $1650.00 for the season. This past season we have spent about $850.00 to heat the house with gas. I was chating with my nieghbor the other day and she just paid $2.41/gallon for oil. You do the math.

Now the bad news. When you take a buried tank out of service you MUST dig it up within 1 year. I found an Enviromental clean up company that did it for $1200.00 (a great deal). Unfortunatly the smell of fuel oil filled the air as they dug the dirt from around the tank. The dirt around the tank was saturated with oil. They dug down about 10 more feet below the tank and you could still smell the fuel in the soil. I had a 40 ton mound of contaninated soil in my front yard (not part of the tank removal deal). It was a real conversation piece. The bottom of the tank looked like it had been blasted by 2 buckshot shells. Water condenses in the top of the tank and the drops drip down through the fuel to the tank bottom where the water attacks the steel.
So I called the guy that said the tank was good and told him about my little enviro disaster. His responce "You can't prove when the tank started to leak. It may have leaked after the test". What a racket. My lawyer said the same thing.

Moral of the story; unless your 90 year old tank is stainless steel it is leaking now and has been for probally 65 years. Get it out of the ground now.

Leo

Any Fuel

Any fuel has it's dangers and limitations. At it's age the tank should come out.

As far as comparing todays gas systems to something from the fifties that is like apples to oranges. It just isn't a fair comparison.

In your case another thing to consider is service as some areas it is hard to find people who service gas. Choice is another, open the phone book and find many oil companies, how many gas companies can you deal with.

Good Luck,
Leo

Constantin

I couldn't agree more...

Underground oil tanks are a huge headache, IMHO, and if they have to be used, they ought to be constructed of non-corrosive materials like plastics with a double wall and an alarm system if one of the two tanks has been breached.

I too would excavate that tank ASAP, save the oil if you want, and have a leg to stand on if the underground oil tank is a leaker and the fuel tank inspector is still liable and in business. You could recycle the oil by polishing it via multiple filters before dumping it into a new tank farm inside the house. Roth tanks are easy to retrofit...

Before jumping to gas, have a look at the present and historic costs/trends of the fuel in your area. Here in Boston, the prices between the two are about equivalent right now and traditionally, oil was 40% cheaper.

Dave Ewald

Get the Full Story

> I have a decision to make and would appreciate

> some input. Currently my house is heated with

> oil heat and I have a buried oil tank (1050 gal.)

> buried in my front yard. The City Fire dept.

> records show it was installed in 1927!! The tank

> was tested last year and passed but I have had

> problems with clogged filters/nozzles/lines etc.

> the last few seasons. My oil company is

> recommending I abandon it and put a tank in the

> basement. I also have natural gas in the house

> and that is what my hot water heater uses. Would

> it make more sense to change to a natural gas

> boiler. My heating system is one pipe steam,

> the current boiler is a Weil-Mclain SGO-4.

Dave Ewald

Get the Full Story

There's plenty to consider, you might want to get estimates both ways. I doubt anyone can determine which way would cost less without doing a real estimate. The gas company will probably give you a rebate. You'll save room in your basement with gas. With gas you might find you'll need a few thousand dollars of chimney work. Replacing the boiler(with a gas or new oil unit) may not pay off any time soon. Sometimes money is better spent on insulation and windows. State laws vary on what homeowner's insurance must cover (like leaking oil tanks), and policies could vary between companies. You might want to optimize your insurance coverage before you start digging.

c.t.kay

underground ust

think about this before you switch to natural gas, if you dont like you oil company you can always change to another company.when you dont like your gas company what do you do?

Frank Dobbs

fewer problems with gas

In NYC, among people who own multi-family buildings, our feeling is that oil is cheaper, so use it for investment properties.

However, so many maintenance problems are caused by the storage and combustion of fuel oil, you want to have gas in your private home, no matter what it costs. Some of this may be NYC where finding maintenance is such a nightmare.

I regret many things about my heating system, but I have never once regretted converting to gas.

jack z_2

I went through the same thing with a buried oil tank. The environmental company removed the tank and said there was massive comtamination from oil leaking from the tank. The company wanted to start cleaning up the area immediately and gave me a change order contract to sign. They wanted $6100/day to begin cleaning up the area with no cap. I declined and contacted my insurance company since the tank was right along my property line. The insurance company sent a different environmental testing company which took core samples down to 20 feet in 6 different areas surrounding the tank. The test results showed there was no leakage or contamination. Our towns building inspector was of no use - as soon as the tank removal company said the tank was leaking he said it was the NJDEP's problem (I am in NJ). He never once came to the job site. My advice to anyone with a buried oil tank is to have it removed. Don't wait until you sell your house and the buyer's home inspector finds it. Then you are under the gun to do something quickly. If the oil tank removal company says your tank is leaking contact your homeowners insurance company. Usually leakage is not covered unless the leakage impacts ground water or a neighbors property. The insurance company will test and let you know the extent of the contamination then you can get multiple estimates on the cleanup of your property.

mikeca

Thanks for all the input. I am leaning toward a gas conversion. My chimney has been relined and the gas is there. I am thinking about the Burnham Independence boiler and running the hot water tank of it as well. (coil)
As for the tank I can abandon in place. The fire dept needs to be on hand to inspect. If OK it gets filled with a slurry.
As far as efficiency how about this; I just measured the oil in my tank and calculated that I used 700 gallons of oil the entire heating season. The temp set at 70deg/day
68deg night. One pipe steam/ 1 zone in a 2,100 sq/ft house.
The house is fully insulated (blown in) and has all new windows. I thank everyone for the help along the way.

System improvements included; Venting mains (Gorton #2), venting rad's (vari vent), insulating mains, pitching rad,s,
and replacing wet returns.

Steamhead

Mike, if you have an SGO

you have a very nice boiler which is not that old. Why waste it?

I'd go with the basement tank(s). If you absolutely must switch to gas, put a conversion burner in the SGO.



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Firedragon_4

I agree and if you

use a gas burner in the SGO and things don't work out you can convert back, JMO!

I'd use this, BTW!

www.carlincombustion.com/products/ezgburn.htm

www.firedragonent.com

mikeca

I was not aware I could convert the SGO. What would you recommend as the conversion burner?

mikeca

Thanks for the link.