burner setup

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

Just had a burner tech out and wondered a couple of things. We did not know what the P in the nozzle ment (4.50-45p) and is the over fire pressure and the flue breech pressure the same thing just found in diferent locations on the boiler? or are they adjustable by somthing other than the flue damper? The tech set the flue damper so the flue breech was to spec. the spec was +.1 and his meter was jumping between -0.1 and +0.1 (Loose fit in the test hole) any thoughts?

ed wallace · March 2005

burner set up

you need a more experiaced tech to set your burner up both over fire and breech draft should be in the negative as in -02 over fire and -04 at the breech or what ever the boiler manufacturer says the draft should be

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

Thanks Ed. Burnham says this boiler should be +0.31 at the over fire and +0.1 at the flue breech. He adjusted the damper to the +0.1 at the breech and did not check the over fire. Is it adjustable? what controlls the over fire pressure? There is a test port. Should the test probe fit tight into the test hole for an accurate reading? Thanks

Steve_35 · March 2005

Positive over fire is unusual in a residential oil fired unit

unless it's sealed combustion. -0.02" is kind of an industry standard overfire pressure.

I agree with Ed. You need a more knowledgeable tech.

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

not residental. Burnham V905A. What sets the overfire draft pressure?

Steve_35 · March 2005

Generally the barometric damper is used to set the OF draft to whatever it should be. The breech draft is what it is unless it indicates a problem like a plugged heat exchanger or air leakage.

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

So it would be better to set the damper from the over fire reading and check the flue breech to see if it is in spec. With such low pressure is the fit of the probe into the test hole vital to an accurate reading? Thanks for your reply.

Steve_35 · March 2005

Yes, you set the damper to get the proper OF pressure.

We don't worry about a sealed fit between the tester and the hole but it's not hugely sloppy either. We drill a 5/15" hole. That's slightly larger than the tube and we try to insert the tube halfway or so.

Unknown · March 2005

Pressure-fire Boiler

Just to clear the air a little here, this boiler is a pressure-fire boiler and needs to run with positive pressure over-fire. The positive pressure over-fire is established by adjustments to the factory breech throttling damper at the canopt flue connector. This is not a barometric and in most cases a barometric damper is not even used. As I stated in a previous and lengthy post, the over-fire pressure is checked in the rear of the boiler on the back side of the combustion chamber. We provide a brass plug right next to a sight glass for this purpose. This check of pressure as well as the breech pressure needs to be checked with a sealed connection by screwing a barbed adapter into the threaded connection where the brass plugs are. Once the breech pressure of + 0.1" w.c. is achieved the over-fire should be relatively close to the desired +0.31" w.c. if the burner is running the correct nozzle and pump pressure and the combustion chamber, cleanout plates and canopy are sealed up correctly.

I will once again stress to all of the folks that have posted here that this is NOT a residential boiler and does NOT operate well on negative pressure in the boiler. It needs to operate on positive pressure to achieve its thermal efficiency.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Unknown · March 2005

Burner Setup

Please disregard all of the posts below from Pitman9. He is referring to conventional residential equipment and NOT a pressure-fire boiler. To properly achieve the desired thermal efficiency of this boiler it needs to operate with positive pressure through the boiler to the breech damper. After the breech damper normal chimney conditions will occur with negative draft conditions.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Unknown · March 2005

Also

You apparently have your settings for "The Wall" set to e-mail you as to responses to your post. Just wanted to let you know that you have the e-mail address for that setup incorrectly. It keeps sending me messages regarding being undeliverable. You have it set up as ........@yhoo.com instead of .......@yahoo.com.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

tommyoil · March 2005

Thanks again

Glenn for clearing that up. Once again you have proven yourself invaluable here. Excellent (and corrective) explanation.
Tommy

Ted_4 · March 2005

Read the Book!

> Please disregard all of the posts below from

> Pitman9. He is referring to conventional

> residential equipment and NOT a pressure-fire

> boiler. To properly achieve the desired thermal

> efficiency of this boiler it needs to operate

> with positive pressure through the boiler to the

> breech damper. After the breech damper normal

> chimney conditions will occur with negative draft

> conditions.

>

> Glenn Stanton

>

> Manager of

> Training

>

> Burnham Hydronics

>

> www.burnham.com

Ted_4 · March 2005

Read the Book!

Just one thing you didn't say, Glenn: READ THE INSTALLATION MANUAL!!!

ed wallace · March 2005

draft

sorry glenn i had not read his other posting so i was under the impression it was a resedential boiler

Steve_35 · March 2005

Thanks, Glenn

Residential is what I had in mind.

[Deleted User] · March 2005

The \"P\"

is Hago's designation for solid spray pattern. If the boiler is vented into an existing tall stack, it may be necessary to install a barometric draft regulator in the vent between the boiler & stack. Variances in stack draft can affect the pressure settings @ the boiler damper. Particularly noticeable on cold, windy days.

Hope it is steaming now.

Unknown · March 2005

That is correct

But first off it is advisable to get it operating with the intended positive pressure.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Unknown · March 2005

No problem

Sorry to put a stop to your comments but I have been trying to get this gentleman headed in the right direction and saw things headed in the opposite direction.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Unknown · March 2005

Unknown · March 2005

No problem Ed

I just needed to turn this thing back around to get him pointed in the right direction again.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

Glenn, The draft makes a big difference. so do the vents. The techs could not get the thing to light with the propper nozzle and head adjustment. Went back to the old setup with the new draft. I think they read the shutter as 0 instead of 6 (Bad fax copy) Did not want to redo or work with Burnham rep. Is this worth going after? Any idea of what kind of gain with the proper nozzle / head setup?

Unknown · March 2005

Setup

As long as it is running clean and you are now retaining the heat in the boiler with positive pressure setup, you should appreciate a very noticable improvement in fuel savings. I'm not sure why they had difficulties with the burner igniting though. It may very well be that when your boiler was purchased that the burner may have been taken out of the distributors stock direct from Beckett in lieu of having it purchased from Burnham. In other words, the air tube assembly may be somewhat different than the one we specify and order. Once again, if it is burning properly and the pressure at the breech is correct then I wouldn't be concerned.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

lchmb · March 2005

curious

When you say they went back to the old setup, what do you mean? Did they downfire the unit? If so how far down? I have seen (way to many) of these unit's downfired and that's not the answer. You can get it to run but your not getting the best out of it. If they are having issue's with ignition is the ignitor itself any good? Are the electrodes set properly? I personally have called Burnham on a number of issue's and they have been outstanding on tech support. They work with you and explain it all step by step. I would want it done right....But I'm fussy...:)

thfurnitureguy_4 · March 2005

This burner a Beckett cf800 was configured exactly as described in the Burnham suplied Becket suplement to the OM. We have determined thru the serial # and the top piping that this boiler is an early v905A the newer setup. The burner lit. is for the older v9 boiler. It is odd that the thing runs with the old setup and not the new. the diference is 4.0 60 (old nozzle) and 4.5 45P (new nozzle)The spark transformer was replaced this time along with the fuel delay solonoid and valve. The only way they could stop the rough start with the old setup (this time) was to keep moving the head adjustment back (5-6). It still belches smoke from a bad gasket at the site window in the front each time it starts.(one woof/puff) they thought this was from the reduced draft. It is heating better I would like to work with a tech that would get it right. This last ordeal cost me $500. and other than the valve, fixed things that may have finished out the season. Could the lack of start up fire been caused by the air shutter set to 0 instead of 6? Very frustrating day but with some good results.

Unknown · March 2005

Could be that

or the electrode and head settings as well as the air tube that the boiler came equipped with. As I stated there is no guarantee that this burner came from Burnham set up for this boiler. It could have been out of a distributors stock and set up to the standards listed in the Beckett book you got with the boiler.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Unknown · March 2005

The present configuration

for the CF800 burner for the V905A includes a CF8-KH Air Tube assembly. There should be a label on top of the air tube where it bolts to the burner chassis.

#2 Head Setting

#10 Air Shutter

#6 Air Band

I do not have the settings or Air Tube number for the V905 burner. They can be obtained by having your serice company call R.W. Beckett direct at 1-800-OILBURN. Have them ask for Commercial Burner Tech Services.Just have them clarify if you have a burner setup for the V905 or V905A (If there is any difference). They can also assist with getting this set up and running right.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

Glenn This is a puzzler the air tube is tagged CF8-KH The problem is that at this time I have no service company. The first group maintained the system for 3 years and had the damper set full open and felt good about it. The second did not want to work through the problem. Your tec offered to set up a meeting with a factory rep. What else could be done. Can you recomend a burner tech that you know has a working knolege of this system in the Hanover PA area? This should not be this hard. Steamhead is close but I don't know if he works on burners.

Weezbo · March 2005

ok one more old timer trick...

take the burner out entirely drag it outside get an extention cord and some diesiel oil drop two lines in the bucket,plug the extention cord into the burner and transformer ...watch the fire... if none. stop right there and put a by passin the pump,.done deal. if it fires in open air you can see the flame anmd its size and formation..done deal.

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

I think I need a tech to set it up to spec. Start to finish. I believe the problem came from a bad fax copy on the air settings. When it didn't fire they went back to what was working before. 10 on the air band and 0 on the shutter ( was suposed to be 6 shutter) would make it prety rich, no? I would play with this but I dont have the tools to check and fine tune even if it fired with the right settings. It would be fun to see that big flame in the church parking lot out back though. Thanks for the tip

Weezbo · March 2005

oki *~/:) .... Remember ...I will not fear your fiery furnaces \"

> I think I need a tech to set it up to spec.

> Start to finish. I believe the problem came from

> a bad fax copy on the air settings. When it

> didn't fire they went back to what was working

> before. 10 on the air band and 0 on the shutter

> ( was suposed to be 6 shutter) would make it

> prety rich, no? I would play with this but I dont

> have the tools to check and fine tune even if it

> fired with the right settings. It would be fun

> to see that big flame in the church parking lot

> out back though. Thanks for the tip

Weezbo · March 2005

oki *~/:) .... Remember ...I will not fear your fiery furnaces \"

> I think I need a tech to set it up to spec.

> Start to finish. I believe the problem came from

> a bad fax copy on the air settings. When it

> didn't fire they went back to what was working

> before. 10 on the air band and 0 on the shutter

> ( was suposed to be 6 shutter) would make it

> prety rich, no? I would play with this but I dont

> have the tools to check and fine tune even if it

> fired with the right settings. It would be fun

> to see that big flame in the church parking lot

> out back though. Thanks for the tip

Weezbo · March 2005

oki *~/:) .... Remember ...I will not fear your fiery furnaces \"

> I think I need a tech to set it up to spec.

> Start to finish. I believe the problem came from

> a bad fax copy on the air settings. When it

> didn't fire they went back to what was working

> before. 10 on the air band and 0 on the shutter

> ( was suposed to be 6 shutter) would make it

> prety rich, no? I would play with this but I dont

> have the tools to check and fine tune even if it

> fired with the right settings. It would be fun

> to see that big flame in the church parking lot

> out back though. Thanks for the tip

Weezbo · March 2005

oki *~/:) .... Remember ...I will not fear your fiery furnaces \"

O K~ a~Ay

yup it mighty be a little too awsome to behold ,in the church parking lot ,as you say:) for some reason i thought that you were dialing it in to factory and was just having a heck of a time with it..if anything i just said makes sence to you Your already in trouble

put the cresent wrench down and call a professional burner man. tell him it hasnt worked right from the get go..and dont confuse the guy any further

trust me ...these things require ones full attention, lengthy conversations on atomization and the molecular structure of copper ...really isnt what the the guy is focused upon ,...its just something to keep your mind occupied while he is trying to focus on what hes doing .. cool?

if you are having a bit of a goaround trying to focus on the problem...think about what the guy responsible for your safety has to be rolling through his gourd

OIL TECH TALK is a site where you may be able to find some very sharp cookie in your bally wick...And these guys are like absolutely into control of fire

because as these burner gizmoes get bigger they act way way more enlightening ..aas it were *~/:)

thfurnitureguy_2 · March 2005

Heard that!

burner setup

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