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Nice work- pictures
Robert O'Connor_3
Member Posts: 272
This is a job that I was able to startup last week. It is in Vernal Utah, installed by Mark Felch Construction. We had a great time putting it together. It is truely a work of art. Nice job Matk! tt
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Comments
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That is amazing work...
Either that's a huge house or it's microzoned! I really like the pipework in terms of its compactness, it's a study as how to get the maximum of utility into the minimum of space.
The iso-flanges ahead and behind the pumps are a nice touch, as are the U-traps below the supplies and the returns.
Was this a typical architect-designed 8x6 mechanical room for a 25,000 sq ft. home? :-P
Another question I would have is re: noise... our 6 Grundfos 15-58's drove me to Mupro, the clamps in this install have no rubber dampening... is it quiet?
I also note with interest that the top header on the right side of the picture (the supply, I presume) seems to have been formed by something like the T-Drill system, while the lower one was sweated with separate pieces... is there a reason? Just curious, mind you...
Anyway, if there is one concern, it's the ability to service any pipes "behind" the front row... but I suppose that is a compromise you had to make given the confines of the room you were working in.
My concerns though pale in comparison to the obvious craftsmanship that it must have taken to assemble that much copper pumps, etc. that neatly. A tip of this homeowner's hat to you!0 -
This is a 14 zone onix staple up system. There are two pumps to the left that supply a second stage to two hi velocity units in the attic with hot water coils. the pump to the right of those two is DHW. They come off first ahead of P-1 after the spirovent. P-1 shuts off to provide priority. The secondary loop goes up to the left from the closely spaced tees into the supply header across the top
all zones pump down. The Monitor boilers are great for this type of sysem controled by a 262 and 369's. The boiler room is in a concrete room on the side of the garage, the rest of this big rambler is crawlspace. noise is not bad at all. It was fun, lots of time money and thought.0 -
This is a 14 zone onix staple up system. There are two pumps to the left that supply a second stage to two hi velocity units in the attic with hot water coils. the pump to the right of those two is DHW. They come off first ahead of P-1 after the spirovent. P-1 shuts off to provide priority. The secondary loop goes up to the left from the closely spaced tees into the supply header across the top
all zones pump down. The Monitor boilers are great for this type of sysem controled by a 262 and 369's. The boiler room is in a concrete room on the side of the garage, the rest of this big rambler is crawlspace. Noise is not bad at all. It was fun, lots of time money and thought.0 -
Here is another view of the piping0 -
That is TRULY a work of art and craftsmanship
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Way cool
"uies"are cool too i like uies this is going to be a great year ! Every one has a nice tidy boiler room lash up comming :)face it. the high oil prices are our definite forte :)we now how to squeeze those btus out and protect the systems and boilers whats not to like? 0 -
Beutiful Work!
I noticed that 9D back-flow preventer, the discharge drain is down-side up. Shouldn't it piped down into a drain line?.
Nice work and well put together!
Moses
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yep you are right! we'll have to turn it. thanks!0 -
From
I would say looking at it from a service side, THANK YOU. All of those shutoff's are a beautiful thing to see when their is a problem at 2 a.m. Beautiful job!!0 -
That's one nice looking install, I really like those 'U' bends, makes all the pipework look great. Couple of ?'s for you though, how come you have a spirovent on the return with a hose thread cap on it? Why not just use a boiler drain for you purge set up? Or am I just missing something? Also, are those spring checks on the return loop? I thought that you couldn't mouth them vertically? Not trying to be nit picky just curious.0 -
Couldn't do it alone
Thanks to tommie the techie. He made it work from 180 miles away.0 -
more thanks
Thanks also to the master fitter who spent two weeks putting the board together with the piping and controls in his garage in Provo, Utah. Thanks, ****.
The rest was mostly the house builders with some piping help from J.D.S. Plumbing here in Vernal. Mark.0 -
Art is in the eye of the beholder.
This heating system certainly falls into a category I like to refer to as; "Multimedia Sculpture." The craftsmanship/artwork here is nothing short of excellent. Very, very beautifully fit and well executed short of the superfluous components.
I'm not following the U-bend methodology used here. Was it for space savings? It appears to me that you may be trying to create thermal traps by taking off of your supply mains from the bottom, then turning 180º upward toward the distribution piping. Not sure why you did the same for the returns as they also appear to have spring type sweat checks between the ball valves and the U-bends so I am wondering why they were used there? Do these Grundfos 15 58's have the (IFC) Internal flow checks?
I'm not familiar with the bushing you've used on top of the MZs. The concentric vent pipes appear to use only the inner (exhaust) pipe. Is combustion air being drawn in through the top of the "metal box" intake/vent enclosure on top of the MZs? I wouldn't think you'd be pulling in combustion air from the mechanical room so I must be missing something here. The shown PVC side-wall exhaust vents I won't comment on as I have all ready voiced my opinion on side wall vented condensing boilers here. I HATE EM !!!
Unfortunately, I and perhaps others here may have a hard time following this one of a kind and complex hydronic strategy. This coupled with the haunting feeling that however beautifully connected, this system may not possibly be considered a truly energy efficient design. Is there any chance that a wholesaler designed and specified this system and it's components? If so, your wholesaler must really love you because you've obviously spent a whole lot of money there on their finest available components.
I agree with Mr. Von Wentzel that this should be a study of how one may get maximum UTILITY (if needed.) into a minimum of space. However there appears to have been lots more room in this general area that could have been put to good use. I personally don't understand why the board needed to be so cramped as it was well constructed off site. Further, why did it need to include so many of the redundant systemic components as shown?
Condensing boilers are great. I really love the Monitor MZs for their efficiency and being a tried and true and environmentally sound boiler. More so for their simplicity of operation & design. In this system I've counted over 20 circulators and four highly sophisticated controls. Who really saves on energy here anyway with regard to all things considered? The energy returned on energy invested (EROEI) is very low. I understand this was a large residence and money was no object but, I believe a more appropriate system design was called for and unfortunately not realized. Remember that no matter how efficient we burn our fuel in our boilers, if we don't distribute it as efficiently, nothing is gained. There is a penalty for needless electrical consumption.
The point that I am trying to make here is that perhaps the complexity of this design coupled with the HUGE electrical needs may not be as an appropriate systematic approach as we are lead to believe.
May I suggest that before you leave, the piping & valves be clearly marked to identify both flow and the dedicated circuits they serve (I use a label maker for this.) Should someone who has never seen this system before be called in for an emergency repair, they would greatly appreciate that along with a clearly drawn electrical and mechanical drawing as well as sequence of operation manual close by.
Please don't think I'm trying to be a wise **** here. I have designed similar systems in the recent past and continue to re-think the old ways. I wish nothing more than some sort of repeatability within our trade. If we can all learn from this we will all be better off.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
> This heating system certainly falls into a
> category I like to refer to as; "Multimedia
> Sculpture." The craftsmanship/artwork here is
> nothing short of excellent. Very, very
> beautifully fit and well executed short of the
> superfluous components.
>
> I'm not following the
> U-bend methodology used here. Was it for space
> savings? It appears to me that you may be trying
> to create thermal traps by taking off of your
> supply mains from the bottom, then turning 180º
> upward toward the distribution piping. Not sure
> why you did the same for the returns as they also
> appear to have spring type sweat checks between
> the ball valves and the U-bends so I am wondering
> why they were used there? Do these Grundfos 15
> 58's have the (IFC) Internal flow checks?
>
> I'm
> not familiar with the bushing you've used on top
> of the MZs. The concentric vent pipes appear to
> use only the inner (exhaust) pipe. Is combustion
> air being drawn in through the top of the "metal
> box" intake/vent enclosure on top of the MZs? I
> wouldn't think you'd be pulling in combustion air
> from the mechanical room so I must be missing
> something here. The shown PVC side-wall exhaust
> vents I won't comment on as I have all ready
> voiced my opinion on side wall vented condensing
> boilers here. I HATE EM !!!
>
> Unfortunately, I
> and perhaps others here may have a hard time
> following this one of a kind and complex hydronic
> strategy. This coupled with the haunting feeling
> that however beautifully connected, this system
> may not possibly be considered a truly energy
> efficient design. Is there any chance that a
> wholesaler designed and specified this system and
> it's components? If so, your wholesaler must
> really love you because you've obviously spent a
> whole lot of money there on their finest
> available components.
>
> I agree with Mr. Von
> Wentzel that this should be a study of how one
> may get maximum UTILITY (if needed.) into a
> minimum of space. However there appears to have
> been lots more room in this general area that
> could have been put to good use. I personally
> don't understand why the board needed to be so
> cramped as it was well constructed off site.
> Further, why did it need to include so many of
> the redundant systemic components as
> shown?
>
> Condensing boilers are great. I really
> love the Monitor MZs for their efficiency and
> being a tried and true and environmentally sound
> boiler. More so for their simplicity of operation
> & design. In this system I've counted over 20
> circulators and four highly sophisticated
> controls. Who really saves on energy here anyway
> with regard to all things considered? The energy
> returned on energy invested (EROEI) is very low.
> I understand this was a large residence and money
> was no object but, I believe a more appropriate
> system design was called for and unfortunately
> not realized. Remember that no matter how
> efficient we burn our fuel in our boilers, if we
> don't distribute it as efficiently, nothing is
> gained. There is a penalty for needless
> electrical consumption.
>
> The point that I am
> trying to make here is that perhaps the
> complexity of this design coupled with the HUGE
> electrical needs may not be as an appropriate
> systematic approach as we are lead to believe.
> May I suggest that before you leave, the piping &
> valves be clearly marked to identify both flow
> and the dedicated circuits they serve (I use a
> label maker for this.) Should someone who has
> never seen this system before be called in for an
> emergency repair, they would greatly appreciate
> that along with a clearly drawn electrical and
> mechanical drawing as well as sequence of
> operation manual close by.
>
> Please don't think
> I'm trying to be a wise **** here. I have designed
> similar systems in the recent past and continue
> to re-think the old ways. I wish nothing more
> than some sort of repeatability within our trade.
> If we can all learn from this we will all be
> better off.
>
> _A
> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=
> 296&Step=30"_To Learn More About This
> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in
> "Find A Professional"_/A_
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Is it so beautifull?
Why?
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Craftmanship 200%
suggest that you turn yr backflow drain downward0 -
Nice job Tommy, Tell me, how is the Monitor fired....gas,#2oil,kero ?0
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