drilling out showerhead for more pressure????

jim_14

increase water pressure.. We just renovated the bathroom and the new showerhead is 2.5 gal a minute, even with the water saver removed its just not the same as the old head (plastic $5 gizmo)

I figure if I increase the hole via clamping this piece and drilling down with a large bit, it might help..

What do you pro's think? Am I just wasting my time? Id like your opinions

This pic is the ball end which screws into the showerhead, see how small the hole is.

pic2 is looking at from the other end that screws into shower body

pic3 is the other half which is the showerhead itself

Weezbo

is that a grohe valve attached to the shower head?

i think it would be pretty much self defeating to drill the opening out... some newer valves have gizmoes built into them that limits temps and flows re engineering them might be a idea too far ahead of its time...maybe the valve can be ajudicated with a screwdriver...can you still get at the valve?

jim_14

im not sure what a grohe valve is but

this is a pegasus brand showerhead if thats what you mean?

Weezbo

i have seen that brand in home depot one sunday when i..

was looking for some copper fittings i ran out of...i confess i know zilch about the pegasus brand whatso ever.moen grohe and delat and american standard ... them i know basically.

hr

You will not

increase the pressure by enlarging the hole. But you will increase the flow rate and it does generally make a huge difference. Start with a 1/4 to 5/16" drill size.

I drilled out my sister in laws a few weeks ago, worked fine, although increasing the flow above the 2.5 does goes against the state and federal " clean water conservation acts"

hot rod

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Kal Row

how about flushing the 1.6gal toilet six times...

to make sure there is sufficient drain line carry, to get the s..t out the house - does that go against the "CAA" ???

puh-leeezzz, the epa is government out of control.... thank god bush is in office, only wish he were there when we stupidly signed the Montr

Rookie_3

Go get'em Kal. I think we could sit down together and come up with an endless list of why liberals haven't got a clue.
The tree huggers cry foul if you're not using low loss fittings on your AC hoses and then they go home and jump into the heavily chlorinated pools and hot tubs.

BB

Gordy

Sustainability

Sustainability comes to mind here. There is not a water shortage, true but. The question is will there be a potable water shortage. The earth can only refilter the used water back to its aquifers so fast. We have the ability to desalinize now, but inefficient 50 gals. of salt water yields about 5 to 15 gals. desalinized water.

The Gardens of Babylon was a thriving garden oasis in the middle of the desert because of the fresh water aquifer they built on. Until all the fresh water they had was salinized from watering their gardens, and crops as it filtered down through the mineral rich earth. So ended their civilization.

Pheonix Ariz. comes to mind here. By the way I'm not a liberal.

Gordy

Kal Row

somewhere in my post there was something....

about a need for a naional water grid....

Bob Harper

pressure versus flow

Hot Rod has it correct. This of it this way: you have a garden hose flowing water filling a bucket. Now, put your thumb over the end forming a spray. You increase the pressure resulting in the stream of water projecting much further or stronger into the bucket but it takes much longer to fill the bucket.
Now, get a 1.5" fire hose. How long will it take to fill that bucket? (at 100psi nozzle pressure, you'll get btw 95-125 gallons per minute from a std. fog nozzle. With no nozzle, it is much faster.)
If you want "more water" from a shower head, you need to evaluate the size water lines to the bathroom, your residual or flow pressure, and the type of nozzle (shower head). Some people who don't care about water conservation opt fo large flow deluge heads similar to those used as safety wash stations in factories. Just get out your checkbook for the head and monthly when the water bill comes. Also, you won't be very popular during droughts with water restrictions.

Rookie_3

Good points but they only work with no double standards.
Nevada comes to mind, it's OK to have a nuclear waste dump because there is a profit in nuclear energy, if solar panels carried the same hazards and had to be disposed of in a dump every 5 years that would not be OK. I live in MA and bi-yearly auto inspection are strict on polution. Even the gas cap has to be pressure tested but at any set of lights a trail of black smoke from the exhaust of a big rig can be seen. There are many good enviormetal points to me made but the ones we have to live by are dictated strictly by $$$$$$$$$$$.

BB

Jim_35

its not about using more water in the shower,

> Hot Rod has it correct. This of it this way: you

> have a garden hose flowing water filling a

> bucket. Now, put your thumb over the end forming

> a spray. You increase the pressure resulting in

> the stream of water projecting much further or

> stronger into the bucket but it takes much longer

> to fill the bucket. Now, get a 1.5" fire hose.

> How long will it take to fill that bucket? (at

> 100psi nozzle pressure, you'll get btw 95-125

> gallons per minute from a std. fog nozzle. With

> no nozzle, it is much faster.) If you want

> "more water" from a shower head, you need to

> evaluate the size water lines to the bathroom,

> your residual or flow pressure, and the type of

> nozzle (shower head). Some people who don't care

> about water conservation opt fo large flow deluge

> heads similar to those used as safety wash

> stations in factories. Just get out your

> checkbook for the head and monthly when the water

> bill comes. Also, you won't be very popular

> during droughts with water restrictions.

Jim_35

its not about using more water in the shower,

in fact Id be fine with the 2.5 gpm, its just we'd like a little more pressure to come out of that showerhead.

I bought a cheapo showerhead on Ebay -guy claims 10 GPM flow, and it does flow better ,but the design is cheap and we get a large spray pattern all over the place.

I guess its a matter of preference,some people like a strong stream and others dont mind that slow rate that takes forever to wash the soap off of your skin.

I'll drill it out this afternoon and let you guys know what happens. My only concern is that the existing hole has somewhat of a star shape to it and Im wondering if thats their on purpose to direct the water to spray a certain way

Boiler Guy

Kal

You are definitely entitled to your opinion! However, GK makes a valid point as well. "Potable water" - fit for human consumption is being wasted daily faster than it can be produced in many areas. Without conservation, all of us will suffer the consequences caused by waste and pollution.
Poorly designed products (cheap offshore toilets)rushed to market to satisfy a government mandate further excaberate the problems.

"IF" your reasoning is sound, and this is all just govt meddling,:
1 Why is the USA trying access/purchase Canadian water rights (uder the guise of NAFTA)to provide safe water for their people??
2 Why is there such a huge market in bottled water and related industries to provide "safe drinking water" around the world?
3 Why are CO, AZ, CA, TX, and NY the largest purchasers of bottled Canadian water, usually supplied via truck in 45K loads? Economics 101

Food for thought. JMHO

Tony Conner

Much Of The...

... justification for the "low flow" fittings and fixtures is driven by heavily built-up urban areas, where the water main infrastructure is 100 years old, and was never designed for the flows they're seeing now. Can you imagine what re-laying all of the big water mains would do to traffic in large cities where there are HUGE traffic problems now? And that's on top of the cost.

The quantity of water resources can be debated, the infrastructure cost to handle it really can't. Think of the pumping stations & potable water treatment plants, sewage treatment facilities, mile after mile of piping... And that's the up-front capital cost. The amount of electrical power used to drive all of the pumps and equipment is very large as well. Lots of things to take into consideration on this one.

Weezbo

Jim,....

in alaska there are a huge amount of homes with thier own individual wells for potable water. people here would rather like to think that they have 365 million acres of land witha t least a correspondent number of cubic acres of water minimum...how the heck low water and water savers and watch wardens help the whole situation is a very moot point indeed. as everyone has noted pressure vs volume works like this,you Can increase pressure with volume buh you cannot increase the volume with pressure. like radiant though the btus properly distributed verses a meggar running in the garage to heat the home is where its at. having said this i would say by tapping out the shower head and boosting the pressure maybe you can get a bit more satisfactory results. personally the valve chokin flow is the thing though....

Kal Row

jim, buy a MOEN REVOLUTION shower head...

it gives a fuller stronger feel...they re getting 50 bucks because it's worth it!!!

and then we can quit this sienfeld episode - of a heated but futile argument

Kal Row

bottled water is for convenience...a good filter is all you need

even if your water source is a volcano's aquifer, the distribution system will always mess it up for drinking

and a couple of years ago when NJ had the big drought, I flew over the Boonton reservoir, it was only 1ft deep, it would have cost next to nothing to take a large bulldozer and make it 2ft deeper (they have them a couple of miles away in the old Edison quarry) – so when it does rain, you’d have that much more water, so I don’t want to hear about a water shortage, the gov is taking and not giving!!!

Boiler Guy

True

But if there is no percieved shortages as you would like us to believe, would it not be more economical to produce sufficient convenient products domestically?
What about local job creation opportunities?

I am convinced water issues are not necessarily as contrived or as simple as you would want us to believe. JMO

hr

Interesting to find out just who owns the water in this country

I'm doing a job in Joplin currently, the water company is German owned.

Years ago when their economy was hot, the Japanese were buying up water companies and water rights in Utah and Nevada, the first and second driest states in the nation.

Just because the water is sitting in a hole in front of you doesn't mean it's there for anybody's taking.

You think oil is getting expensive, just wait

hot rod

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Boiler Guy

HR You are

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !!!! There is more foreign ownership of our everday lives than most of us will everknow or dare to admit!!!

Steamhead

I like the Speakman Anystream

And the last I knew, the original version with the solid-brass housing was still being made.

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hr

Good points, Tony

the New York City water system delivers about 1.2 BILLION gallons of water each day. 18 reservoirs, 6181 MILES of water main from 6 to 84" in diameter.

5%of the mains were laid prior to 1870, and about 3000 miles between 1870 and 1930!

This is a great book from Dan's reading list "Liquid Assets" by Diane Galusha. Plenty of research went into this interesting book.

hot rod

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Kal Row

but most of nyc's water resources are within....

economic pumping distance of the mountains where the land layout readily lends itself to building hi-lo reservoirs, which on top of both, would have wind farms built, that do nothing, but pump water from low to high, (a better fit for variable wind energy than to go directly from wind to grid), and then can have turbo-electric generation from hi to low, and can dump excess over the top, and in extended periods of low wind can use Niagara energy to pump the water up or even gas turbine engines to do same, and in low demand hours, can also own energy to pump water up – simple kinetic storage!!!

the annual natural gas usage of such a plant would only be a fraction of a full natural gas driven plant!!!

This give us more reservoirs, and renewable energy at the same time – and it rains and blows in the Adirondacks and Alleganys all the time – can probably produce enough elec and water for half the country

Not gona happen – cause the local environ-MENTAL-ists will scream blue murder!!!

This planet needs an emperor – it’s the only way to solve all the problems without local politics getting in the way – the Romans built those wonderful aqueducts, and if you got in the way, you became part of the structure… just kidding … or am i…;)

hr

Jim

if you drill out the opening, and don't change the water pressure (lower) you will use more water. If you want higher pressure at the head reduce the openings!

The water saver heads try to accomplish the water savings feature by having very small needle sized spray holes. They use less water but increase velocity by using the tiny holes. It "feels" like a high gpm shower head, to some To others it feels like a water laser and may even hurt.

The star shaped hole could be part of the design of the head causing a swirling action, or something.

Or it could be intended for an allen wrench to install the arm without damaging the plating, hard to say without talking to the designer.

Drilling it out may ruin the heads hydraulics.

Buy a higher gpm head and spend less time in the shower! This is where you are headed, pun intended, if you start drilling

hot rod

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Tony Conner

But You're Still...

...left with an urban distribution system that can't take any more volume. In many places they've jacked the water pressure WAY UP to push more water through the same old lines. That's the choke point.

The Romans did indeed build some awesome stuff. However, the Romans were the engineers - all the grunt labour was done by slaves.

jim_14

hot rod, where can I buy a higher gpm showerhead??

theyre all sold with the 2.5 max gpm these days

jim_14

I didnt drill it, but I may have found a solution,

I decided to open the actual showerhead itself and removed this plastic piece that sat just before the spray itself..it appears to have made a difference, but the final test will be tonight before I go to bed a take a shower

besides (the second picture) I believe the shower body itself may limit the flow of water .. are they all like that now?

mp1969

Water conservation not needed.??

I come from a water rich state and still recognize the need world wide and nation wide for water conservation. Most water has to be treated in order for it to be recycled back into the environment.
Wise and proper use of our most vital natural resource is more important than proper fuel usage. Some of the responses here are very irresponsible and thoughtless!!!
Obviously the drink of choice is not H2O for some of you.Might want to look at the water situation in our arid states.
Much of the world suffers from inadequate water for both consumption and hygiene. I can't believe some of you suggest that conservation is not needed!
And no I am not a tree hugger I am a well read realist.

MP 1969

hr

You may be correct

some shower valves have the restrictors built into the body of the valve. Remove the shower head, hold a 5 gallon plastic bucket under it. Run the valve wide open for a minute. How much water is in the bucket? This will tell you the GPM that will flow through the valve in your home.

If you have 2.5 gallons or less adding any head will not increase the amount of flow you get to the head.

As others mentioned, nicer (more expensive heads) flow nicer patterns regardless of the gpm rating.

I got this head at one of the box stores for under 40 bucks. It flows like a sprinkling can and has a lot of arm adjustment. I did remove the restrictor washer. Not a lot of pressure but plenty of flow for a good shower.

hot rod

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Larry Weingarten

Here in central California...

... we've had drought that brought limits of 50 gallons per day per person. If you went over that the utility would come out and put a flow restrictor in your main line. Folks got used to showering with a bucket to catch the water as it warmed up. That would be used to flush toilets or water plants. All lawns turned brown in summer. The slogan "If it's brown, flush it down. If it's yellow, let it mellow" was popular. Now we have water credits. People spend many tens of thousands of dollars for them so that they can get water to build or remodel. Those who don't spend the money wait years for water. There is a lot of money and politics involved. I suspect that being careful with water use will put off the day the rest of the country has to deal with water like we do.

Yours, Larry

Weezbo

all i am saying is in your state there are like 90,000,000

people and 8,000,000 cubic acres of water or what ever...here there are like 300,000 and 365,000,000 cubic acres of water, do the math. if we use 1.6 gallons to not flush the toilet or 3.5 to indeed flush the toilet..what possible impact does that have on you? say for example the government wants to regulate the cost of air...well, with the amount of smog you breath daily maybe you should be able to back charge them for the privildge buh with millions of acres of trees and ground coverage why should i care you are breathing up some of the air from here? attack the lack.not the lackies if you reason that because you have plenty of smog to breathe i should be governed by the same set of rules,... i got to say that doesnt sound reasonable at all.....if you want to do your thinking for me great!, buh, in no way do i feel required to accept endorse or condone the attitude that what is reasonable to You, Somehow Should be reasonable to me.if i gave you a coat and said this will keep you warm buh you cant use your own coat...and mine is good in 80 below zero and 100 mile an hour wind gusts, off a river ravine...you would probably object that it was too wasteful of insulation...to me whatever coat you have doesnt work for me either ...or ,this is America. suit yourself.the fact that Alaska isnt a leader of the Pacific rim economic zone urinates me off no end. the reason ..? because the politicians keep telling people what to think according to some ninny in Washington D.C. without motivating thier own frickin brain.nah...conservation is good and all however i only eat one meal a day...maybe...if the people suggesting everyone needs to die, so that they can have your, "'donated organs" maybe some one will wake up and go ....Hmmmm....that doesnt sound entirely reasonable to... ME .:))maybe letting those yo yos do our thinking for us is a sacrilege and rather than conserving our "Brain power" we actuate the stuff in a more adroit and prefunctionary manner '.:)) yah i know it is sunday and no sence beating a dead horse..:)....sorry ...i sorta shouldnt even responded unless i had something intelligent to say.i am just being the evil advocate ....take my best advise and keep on doing what youve been doing for give me i am a Sinner ....

Mark Eatherton1

Best shower head for the money...

http://www.etlproducts.com/products_oxygenics_experience.html

I used to be a dealer for them and their product works like a champ.

ME

BTW, I do believe we are headed for a potable water shortage. Hard to believe when you're looking at an ocean or a great lake full of water, but POTABLE water is becoming scarce thanks to man kinds pollution.

Better safe than thirsty...

ME

Boiler Guy

Potable

The point of my questions exactly Mark. Even with the abundance of fresh water we have at our disposal locally, there is already concern about future resources.

Gordy

History Channel

Last week there were two episodes on the history channel. Desert climates,and Sub Zero. If its on again watch it Verwy interwesting stuff. Building on that perma frost in the great white north looks like a real challenge Weezbo. Definite proof of the value of perimeter inulation even with out the radiant! What does an acre go for with 40' of perma frost these days. Did not mean to start a ruckus over a shower head )

Gordy

Kal Row

ahh, i get it now, thats why nero burned rome ...

myc is revamping it as we speak - they already did my "hood" - took out 6inch mains and put in "ta-wen-tee-fo's" - not enough for the future of course, the unions always make sure that there is work for the great grandchildren

Kal Row

it doesnt feel light and misty??

Mark Eatherton1

NO. In fact it feels...

Like its going to take your scalp off!

No complaints from women about soapy residue in their hair from this one!

ME

Weezbo

i can get you some with two hundred feet ...for little to nothin

extra :)40 50 feet look at the bright side of it if global warming keeps happening at the "Alarming Rate" maybe in 2 3 thousand years this will be a paradise )))))
sorry it is one of my veritable spiritual struggles i often see things way outta the box.it all started when this madam blavatsky lady moved in next door

Wethead7

Water act

Was signed into law by Goerge H W Bush. And to MS that was a good thing rember the many different low flush W/C
before the standardized at 1.6 Parts of the west coast at 2.2gal, other parts 1.4 gal, AZ at 1.8 gal. We manufactures must have been pulling thier hair out to make and stock the correct w/c for each market.

Mike

Constantin

Actually, some of the responses are funny...

... blanket statements about athesists, pro-abortionists, etc. serve only one purpose, which is flame-bait. If you look at a number of the strong viewpoints listed above, there are few that actually include any data to justify their position.

Furthermore, I find it hilarious that the regulations concerning conservation are condemmed, while the "solution" is a national water grid... yeah, like that won't entail just as much regulation, never mind the enormous cost of implementing it.

Like energy, I feel that the only way for us to have a viable national security strategy is to ensure that each region can support itself, be it power, water, etc. Piping water over millions of miles is like piping electricity from the great lakes down to NYC... you can't possibly patrol all those pylons and a couple of sticks of dynamite in summer when the grid is clapped out would plunge NYC into darkness for at least a week.

From my work setting energy efficiency standards, I would suspect that the reason the EPA set 1.6gallon/flush standards, 2.5GPM flow restrictors, etc. is that the US industry prefers any nation-wide standard over state-set standards like CA on the automotive side (they're grandfathered, apparently). It levels the playing field, simplifies distribution, etc. Plus, quality brands like Toto have proven conclusively that well-engineered toilets can and do work at 1.6 gallons/flush. Even American Standard now advertises a toilet that they dare you to clog.

Furthermore, for me it is just as sinful to waste water as it is to waste energy, oil, gas. Thus, to the extent that I can reduce my ecological footprint, I will. It has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, or my political leanings, for that matter, it's simply part of my philosophy. If Cambridge hadn't been as difficult as they were with the water cistern, perhaps I would have even considered recycling the shower/bath water for the toilets. Not much to it, if you think about it.

Speaking of a water cistern, not too many people have them in the NE, yet the water utility subsidizes the usage/waste of potable water in gardening applications by offering much lower rates on water used in the garden than water used in the house. Ostensibly, this is because the water used in the garden doesn't enter the $$$ MWRA sanitation grid. However, such pricing structures also discourage homeowners from conserving water and coming up with their own sources, like water cisterns.

The western part of the country of course throws a bit of a monkey wrench in such conservation attempts as many areas make it illegal to capture water on your property for which you don't have water rights. I remain amazed every time I go to LA to see lush gardens with non-native plants and huge irrigation channels to funnel storm water into the sea. All those parking lots, roofs, etc. could provide a lot of water when it does rain...

In the densly-populated east, the authorities are finally trying to limit the extent of storm-water overpowering outdated combined sewers by requiring condo projects and the like to install drywells to re-inject the water on site. Nonetheless, I'll bet 90%+ of the water used to irrigate lawns and gardens out here is potable, which is a waste, IMHO.

BTW, this is not a blank check to the EPA to regulate every aspect of our lives. However, one should stop and consider that the US consumes almost half the energy produced on this globe while supporting a population of only 300M people. Sooner or later, we may need to learn to better live inside our needs as other, more populous (and perhaps more prosperous) nations rise due to development.