What Can I do to fix old steam system?

Gerry McCormack

Background -
I recently purchased an older house which has a boiler driving a two-pipe low pressure steam system and a hot water line that Tees out to a hdro-air unit and the hot water tank.

The steam part of the house is mostly too cold, with a few rooms towards the begining of the steam loop getting too warm.

I had a few contractors look at the system and got very different answers:
One guy said that I should convert to hydronics ( push hot water through the existing steam pipes )

Another guy said that individual radiators needed new valves.

The thing I pointed out to these people was that all of the pipes in the system were uninsulated. It previously had asbestos but was removed years ago and never replaced. Both people said that lack of insulation was not an issue.

This did not make intuitive sense to me and when I researched it, including on this message board, all the posts seemed to indicate that it was very importanat to insulate the pipes so te steam doesn't condense before it reaches the furthest radiators.
I am now very worried about the skills of the people I am dealing with.

Questions -
Insulation of Steam pipes:
1. How much of the system shoud I insulate?
Should I insulate the very large bore pipes coming from the boiler?
Should I Insulate the pipes that go to and from the radiators?
Should i insulate the return pipes?

2. As I understand it the asbestos insulation had superior insulative properties (R-value) and was ~1/2 inch thick.
The only pipe insulation I've seen is fiberglass and is ~3/8 thick.

This doesn't quite make sense to me. I would expect the fiberglass insulation to be thicker so it would have the same R-Value.
Is my understanding wrong? Or am I looking at the wrong pipe insulaion providers?

3. Some of the pipe is painted, other unpainted pipes show some surface rust
Is the surface rust significant?
Should I paint it? with anything special?
( probably a dumb question, but I don't know the answer)

Hydronics Option
4. The hydronics design proposed to me would leave all my piping and radiators intact ( radiators would need new valves and would need to be drilled & tapped?) .I worry about the amount of water it would take to fill the system.

Would pushing the amount of water equall to the volume of my entire steam system be an issue?
Wouldn't it have to be at a high pressure.

Would this system be efficent with that much water needing to be hated to warm the house?

Professional Help
5. I am located in Southport CT and would appreciate contact info for someone who could
1. Evaluate my existing steam system to see if it can work
2. Fix/Balance my heating system - fixing radiators, installing thermostatic valves, insulation, etc..
3. Provide me with sufficent hot water (or reccomend someone who could)

I tried the lookup on this site, but it doesn't work for zipcodes starting with "0" e.g. 06890

Any advice or commments would be appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,
Gerry McCormack
gerry_mccormack@hotmail.com

Ernie

Gerry

J R Plumbging & Heating is next door to you type in 06851 in find a professional, John is excellent and am sure he can help you.

Steamhead

Gerry, one thing they all missed

is: how is the air vented from that system? If the air can't get out, the steam can't get in. This is probably why you get heat from some radiators but not others.

The most common version of two-pipe steam in residential settings is Vapor. This type of system has no air vents on the radiators. The air passes into the dry (overhead) return line and is vented at a central location- often near the boiler. There has to be a method of keeping steam from reaching the dry return- traps, water seals, check valves and supply-side orifices are used to do this.

An earlier and less-common version of two-pipe uses a shutoff valve on the return side as well as the supply side of each radiator, and each rad has an air vent. In this "Two-Pipe Air-Vent" system, the return lines are not vented at all.

In both systems, the steam mains need to be properly vented so they will fill with steam quickly. And yes, the steam pipes need insulation- but you can't find what you need at Home Depot. Typically you can only get 1-inch-thick fiberglass pipe insulation from a supply house.

If you can, take some pics of your boiler, the piping around the boiler and several of your radiators, and post them here. This will help us identify the system. Include any manufacturer's names you find on the various system components.

I wouldn't even consider changing your system to hot water. The man who told you that doesn't understand steam. To see a discussion of the pitfalls of this type of conversion, go here:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad Burns-Howard

Pipe Insulation Contractor Recommendation

Gerry:

Check Anchor Insulation on the web and they can give you an estimate for insulating your pipes. They have a CT location plus RI. They did a quality job for us on a VECO one pipe system in Bridgeport. Also, as novice steam-heated home owner (built 1878) I can't say too much about Dan's books. Buy them!

Brad Burns-Howard
P.S. John at JR is good, though he works mostly in the lower end of the Fairfield County Gold Coast, Greenwich, etc.

thfurnitureguy_2

I'm going through the same thing with an old building PA Much of what you are going to hear from your local hot air guys is going to be wrong, steam is its own thing. They all want to sell you what they know. The good thing is Steam works great if it is vented right and the pipes are insulated. Each pipe that is not covered is an additional radiator that was not designed into the system when they built it. Vent your mains fast and vent your radiators for comfort. Your main pipes need to be full of steam (purged of air) as soon as they can be. "Steamhead" is the man for vents. You need to masure the dia. of your main steam lines and the length from boiler to main vent. If this is not vented or the vents are stuck or leaking, your system is trying to purge air through the radiators only. The heat travels like a wave through your building. Hot by the boiler and cold at the ends . Usually the stat is satisfied some where in the middle andyour ends never heat. Your goal is to heat all of the radiators at the same time. I am not the expert but these guys are. My system is well on its way to right from their help. Good luck and keep the faith

t. tekushan

run time

How long are your run times?
An improperly set thermostat heat anticipator (too short) can cause problems.

But I concur with everyone else on this: INSULATE!
Also, check the venting issues others have mentioned.