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DanHolohan

all about it, Tim:

<a href="http://www.heatinghelp.com/shopcart/product.cfm?category=2-16">Pumping Away</a>

Timco

big deal

What exactly is the big benefit of pumping away from the exp tank boiler? I have been told this is a past 10 years thing and has no real benefit by an old salty dog. My system runs excellent.

T

clammy

The truth

I to at one time had my doubts and got tried of returning to bleed systems and the inhert promblems that some homes and developements have low water pressure or well systems. After the first boiler i repiped which was originally a wacky momo flow with split supply with momo flow tee's and here's the kicker reducing main sizes in some places instead of momo flow tee's real piece of work oh yeah and 2 kick space heaters on a zone valve to boot and 2 base board loops .A real thrill to bleed enclosed convectors so ya move some furniture pull them off and so on .I repiped the supply and returns using 2 pumps on the supply pumping away from expansion tank and installed a spriovent and flow checks on my pump out ltes ,i used one pump for the momo flow system and another one for the baseboard with zone valves on the return and a system by pass off the pump to pervent dead heading the pump when the zone valve closes.I also installed one purge vale and one full port ball valve on thga supply now i don,t have to move my hose around to bleed the system when i start this system i did a quick bleed ran the pumps and only bleed 2 rads on the 2 nd floor avoiding bleeding 6 rads and a kick space heater on the 1 st floor pretty good yeah?The company i work for has always been plauged with air promblems all oil fired boilers since adapting the pumping away piping on all of our installs that i have done since about 96 we have never had to go back for air related promblems and most of all these homes suffer from well systems or low water pressuer also the other point in the origal job example there comfort level in the home was much better those 2 nd fllor rads finnally where kickin some heat and the electric rads where removed from those rooms and there gas comsumation was less then prior years .In closing there are many many benefits and advantages of piping your systems this way it drasticlly impoves your systems distrubition performace and over all improves system effeciency and virtully elimates all air related promblems .It is the only way to pipe a system in my mind any thing less is going back in time and over time creating promblems and yes i know there are thousands and millions of units installed with pumps on the returns and they work so why change ? Maybe because it's to both you and your custemers well being .Sorry to rant and carry on but in reading dan's book it may change you from a salty old timer to some one who has alot more open minded to new ideas i know it helped change my mind completely .Good luck and peace clammy

EBEBRATT-Ed

In a small system without much resistance pumping toward the tank may work fine but will be more difficult to bleed

Don't make the mistake of pumping toward the tank on a commercial job. I had a two story building that when you went to the top floor to bleed radiation the vents sucked in air. This has nothing to do with system fill pressure as some people thought--only system resistance and the point of no pressure change.

jeff_51

pumping away is the rats -ss

done many jobs where we pumped away ( the only way to go) did the initial bleed (force bleed only) walked away and never came back. Pumping away with a good air eliminator (spirovent and spirovent only in my opinion) and you are cookin'. 'course I'm talkin baseboard here, it is a little differant with radiators, but pumpin away is still the cat's meow

Boilerpro_3

Faaaar Older than ten years

It is outlined and recommended in the Bell and Gossett Engineering Manuals from the early 1960's. The old salty dog is about 50 years behind. I have systems installed in the late 1950s that use pumping away. As a matter of fact, this piping layout saved a house from freezing up when the system sprung a leak, the water go low, but the pump was able to push the water through the system. Check out the Triad package radiant ceiling and baseboard systems out of Chicago (B&G's home) from the 1950's and 1960's. All pumping away!


Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

Faaaar Older than ten years

It is outlined and recommended in the Bell and Gossett Engineering Manuals from the early 1960's. The old salty dog is about 50 years behind. I have systems installed in the late 1950s that use pumping away. As a matter of fact, this piping layout saved a house from freezing up when the system sprung a leak, the water go low, but the pump was able to push the water through the system. Check out the Triad package radiant ceiling and baseboard systems out of Chicago (B&G's home) from the 1950's and 1960's. All pumping away!


Boilerpro

Randy Tibbits

I had doubts too. But I strive to be open minded and tried it. I seen positive results from the start. When I first started in the trade most pumps were on the return side. This is the way I was taught. In the early 90's I joined burnham's home heating team. They sent me a book of Dan Holohan articles. One of these articles spoke of pumping away. Always striving to be sharper and better I tried it out. No more air problems to speak of after that.

Boiler Guy

I too

Was converted. Started out with pumps on the return side -- always had at least 1 call a year on installs, relating to air. The proof came when I convinced one owner to let me repipe another contractor's pump placement. This person had no end of grief for 5 years prior. Unhappy tenants and service calls finally pushed him over the edgde. I spent 5 hours reconfiguring the pumping and voila, all the problems magically disappeared. In 48 hours the building was air free and has been ever since.