noisy gas valve

Dave_61

On our natural gas boiler, there are 2 gas valves (2 stage burner). They are made by Johnson controls. The valves are each activated/opened by a solenoid in the valve.
Since the valve train is hooked up directly to the gas line which is steel and runs under our kitchen and family room, whenever the valve(s) open, there is a distinct metal banging/clanging sound that is transmitted through the pipe and into our living space. It sounds like someone is giving a metal pipe a whack with a wrench (for a split second).
That does not happen when the valves close/shut off. I tried putting some type of dampening material (rubber) between the pipe and the hangers, but that did not work.
Has anyone else had this kind of problem, and is there any way to alleviate the noise? The main valve was even replaced, but the sound from the new one is the same as before. Thanks.
Dave

Weezbo

Dave that is not good.

that isnt a really good sign at all...natural gas and lp really arent supposed to be giving you any thing of the sort in the way of mysterious noises....uh uh..,seriously, i'd check it out with an ultra sound machine and locate where it is comming from , then open the floor or wall whatever, and properly deal with the lost support or missplaced squeaker or the plate lateral displacement or what have you...it is simply not worth the risk to you and your family for weird things, to be happening mysteriously with gas lines....

Dave_61

The pipe is exposed the entire length in the basement.It is not inside any walls, etc. The sound appears to come directly from the snapping sound of the valve opening and travelling through the metal of the pipe.

Weezbo

that dave helps alot....

well, banging open or banging shut isnt normal either...for any valve. was it recently installed? does the appliance have a drip leg ahead of it? a "T" that goes down to a cap?
i have called my friend for you if the valve is a problamatic valve he will have heard of it, as our appliances are all very new around here, and he is the go to guy for any problem .He doesnt play favorites with any manufacturer he just makes sure that the best of education and accurate current information is presented in our area. when we had some problems with a manufacturer he got with it. got thier advanced service tech up here had a class on the practises means and methods and answered our questions and resolved the problem. after visiting enough of the installations to fully assure himself that indeed we were telling him the truth,with the tech . my buddy can say ,unless this issue is addressed immediately these appliances will not be allowed to be installed on our distribution system.and hey it behoves the manufacturer to get his ducks in a row immediately...in no way do we wish to allow anyone to be living in jepoardy...i just got off the phone with him and he says you want to "get someone back over there" to make it short and sweet . our conversation is a little more indepth than that however...
it went into munchkin land and sharing of info and a favor or to and possible getting the boys after it early so i can bolt up the riello gas burner thanks . helping you was a wonderful deal *~/:) go with my buddie mace's suggestion. it isnt normal , the drip leg is important, it could be ahead of the valve,he hasnt heard of that valve itself being a problem.

Dave_61

thanks

The gas line comes down vertically from the ceiling near the boiler. Then at the boiler, there is a tee that goes horizontally to a honeywell valve, but the vertical part of the tee continues down to a drip leg.
Inside the boiler are 2 other valves for the burners (made by Johnson controls). When I first noticed the noise about 3 years ago, the furnace guys came out and replaced the main burner valve. However, the new one sounded exactly the same. In the basement, it sounds like the click of a solenoid, but in the house, it sounds like someone is hitting a metal pipe. The furnace guy came upstairs and didn't think it was abnormal. Our basement is one very large unfinished space with concrete walls, so i was wondering if this could just be amplifying a noise into something louder than it normally would be.
When the valve was replaced, i spoke to a tech person at Johnson controls who said that their valves did make a definite snapping sound when they opened. I just wasn't sure if there is a way to decrease the noise,as we have had 2 furnace guys from separate companies tell us it is normal. It's weird...sometimes we just hear a slight click and other times it is a distinct metal clang. We have never smelled gas or anything like that.

tommyoil

Weezbo

I am currently running a Weil/Mac CGI 6. I too have the same noise from my gas valve that echos through my 1-1/4" gas main. EVERY TIME the boiler comes on, I hear the blower come on, then a delay, then two distinct "clicks" that echo through the gas main then ignition. I too thought something was wrong and changed the gas valve(Honeywell mod#VR8204A2001). No difference. I do not notice the same noise when standing next to the unit when it comes on. Just the click of the gas valve actuating. I only hear the "pipes" when I'm directly above the unit. Not sure how abnormal it is. Not anxious to change the valve a third time. Whatcha think. Am I in some sort of danger. Maybe Bill at Honeywell can chime in here. Tommy

Weezbo

Wow...Tommy....

cze. a snap switch might be kinda loud buh something more is causing that.....clanging noise aint a good thing...the boilers we had the guy come look at were randomly and spasmodically shutting off...a slightly different puzzel....if every time a fuel oil burner started with a loud screech howl and wail of some sort,i know what that is and could fix it in a heart beat...gas valves that start with a clang ...i dont say it couldnt happen buh i am saying that it doesnt sound like an accepatble thing to me.and i would want to take the entire valve apart flush the gas out past the drip leg remove the pipe from it to the valve and figure out what the frick is causing it.is it ahead of the appliance? then lets find out what that meters spinning at ...i too would be interested in what Bill has to say or timmie....i Know That these two gentelmen have to get an earful every single day ...of what the ....Heck is THIS! and ok Timmie now i just hooked up a gizmo delux with the new rammer frammer 5000 valve from smuchk snd ladds inc...Why is it doing That? i help...buh am far from the beaten path...maybe we have caught afew buggs here and there along the way in Alaska first due to our insanely cold weather conditions etc, however like i say none of the people here have seen well heard this particular problem specifically...it doesnt sound acceptable to me ...even i can make something of a sane suggestion from time to time...that Dave lived with it as it were for three years doesnt preclude my thought that i find that to simply not be something id share his partiular patience with ....

Robert O'Connor_7

click CLACK!

CGi's are notorious for this. PITA..

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Dave_61

is there any way to isolate the noise?

Is there any way to stop the noise from travelling through the gas main? Wrapping the pipe didn't work. The problem with my house is that the gas main goes underneath most of the living space so you hear it in differing degrees throughout the living area. BTW, Mine is a Lochinvar EBN300.

tommyoil

Robert/ Notorious on CGI??

Have same clicks on EG's and CGA's. I always assumed it to be a normal operating noise. 1) Is this normal and 2) is it dangerous. I didn't think it was right from the get go, so thats why I changed the valve with ZERO results. Like I said, at the boiler its just two clicks of the valve actuating (I assume thats what its doing) but upstairs, those two clicks echo through the gas main. Its been doing this since DAY ONE. What the heck????? Now I'm a little nervous. Its not like I can get up and run out the door if s*#@t hits the fan. I'd have to walk slowly. Besides, if something goes wrong gas wise I probably wouldn't have to worry too much about walking anywhere. I'd probably land in Weezbos neighborhood. My 1-1/4" gas main is strapped to my basement joists. Could that be acting as an amplifier when the gas valve "clicks" open??

tommyoil

Dave

Whats your gas valve model??? Just wondering.

Dave_61

noise being amoplified through piping

I think that's the problem....tht the click that I also hear at the furnace/boiler is being amplified through the gas main that is attached to the joists. Isn't there any way to isolate things better? I had taken pieces of rubber and wrapped the main where the hangers are, but to no avail. Isn't there anything else that can be done (putting some type of connection that absorbs "shock" of valve opening between gas main and boiler)?

Dale

Valve

That is probably not two valves but a redundant valve with 2 coils in a row, wired in series, both of which open at once. As a quick fix you could use an appliance connector of the shortest length possible to dampen the hard piping. Kind of like earthquake hookup. Next in cost is a "trailer connector" which is used on mobile homes and is rated for gas and is a legal rubber hose connection. (legal here but always a good thing to speak to a code enforcer if this will be inspected). There is also a version which is stainless on the outside used for gas hookup where vibration is a problem. If there's a person in your area who uses csst a short pc can be legally used like an appliance connector in the run next to your boiler. Or you can buy a honeywell or other diaphragm type gas valve that doesn't have the noisy solonoid coils.

Dave_61

valve model# and isolation techniques

Actually, I put my ear to the different valves, and it is the Honeywell VR8305M 4843 valve on the outside of the boiler that makes the distinct snapping sound on opening. It is then wired to 2 other valves made by Johnson controls inside the boiler on the burner train.
Has anyone also heard of this with the Honeywell? I think you said you had the problem Tommy.
As far as isolating the noise, the boiler is 300,000 BTU and it looks like the gasline is 1" iron. Woulsd an appliance connector (stainless) not transmit the noise through the pipe? Or should I have someone come in with that yellow coated tubing I've seen installed in a friend's house? In other words, what would be the best at stopping the transmission of the noise through the pipe?

Dave_61

called Honeywell

I called Honeywell, and they said they have no idea what to do as far as trying to isolate the noise from their solenoid gas valve. They also have not heard of the click being transferred through the piping in the house. Any ideas? Should I have someone hook up the boiler to the line with CSST?

handysteve

simillar experienceI

I too am having a noisy valve like someone hitting a pipe with a hammer...when the boiler fires up.  Its in a plastic insulated boiler cabinet....only happens when it calls for heat sometimes... did you get any resolution?

handysteve

simillar experienceI

I too am having a noisy valve like someone hitting a pipe with a hammer...when the boiler fires up.  Its in a plastic insulated boiler cabinet....only happens when it calls for heat sometimes... did you get any resolution?

BobC

Partial fix

My EZgas uses a honey wellgas valve that sounds like someone is hitting the pipe with a 2x4 every time the gas valve opens or shuts and it's right below my living room so I hear it loud and clear.



The gas main runs from the meter about 10 ft over and then drops down to the EZgas. There are 2  2X4's between the floor joists that the gas line is tightly clamped to. i moved the blocking up a bit and wrapped the pipe in strips of 1/8" silicone rubber sheet, then used the clamps to secure the pipe. That cut the noise upstairs almost by half.



Bob

capt_pete

same situation valve makes clangiing sound on/off

I am in the same boat .



I converted from Oil to Nat Gas I had a weil mclain WGO gold boiler 5 yrs old. On paper it look like the most economical way to go was to replace the becket oil  burner with a Carlin EZ-gas burner. The difference between this option and going with a condensing boiler was  2000.00 vs 5000  for the conversion. My HVAC guy who I trust did the conversion and tuned it to  85% . So far so good later that night when things were very quiet in the house. I noticed the gas valve clang right after the unit did its purge cycle and also on the shut down.The sound was actually amplified from the sound in the basement. The gas valve is a Honeywell VR4305M4540 . Also the Carlin burner sounded louder than the exhaust from a F4 phantom that I was around during my time with the Marines in the late 60's. I had my HVAC guy come out and evaluate the situation. He concurred with my observations and contacted Carlin and they sent a tech rep out. He said thy had complaints about the loud sound of the ez gas burner and they had a fix for it with a newly designed tube and replaced it with same and threw in a shroud cover to try and dampen the sound also.

 No improvement at all maybe worse I do not have a DB sound meter to verify.

 He also changed the Honeywell  gas valve. Still clanging like before I have to give them both credit as they did try and fix the problem. I said I would get back to them after I exhausted  all my efforts to find a fix myself . I tried to isolate the 1" black pipe by using closed cell foam insulation and adding more foam where the clamps were attached to the joists isolated the hangers also like a navy boomer sub too. Still a loud clang on the on and off cycle !! I am at my wits end on this one my wife and I get woken up at night with the sound. I probably will have to take a loss and go with a condensing boiler if I don't resolve this in the near future I just hope if I do change out the boiler I will not have the same situation with the gas valve clanging away in the condensing unit also. Any ideas always welcome !



Thanks, Capt Pete

JStar

Noise

Did they check the gas valve voltage and gas pressure?

capt_pete

follow up

Gas pressure and voltage were checked on the original valve and were with in limits.

But the carlin rep brought another valve and installed and checked the limits again.

No change!  Still makes a bang on/off . I got the impression from the carlin rep that the the carlin ez-gas unit is working like it is suppose to, It fires up and is 84% efiencient.

No claim as to sound was every presented. You can't hear the TV in the living room when it runs with out turning it up! and the sound just goes through out the house. 



 I don't fault my HVAC guy at all, the fact that carlin sent a rep out and stated that had a FEW complaints on the noise  leads me to believe that they know a problem exits.

So do I spend money and get a lawler or do I get a modulating condenser boiler and throw out this unit like a drunken guest at a wedding ?

BobC

Less noise

When my carlin EZ-Gas / Smith G8-3 was installed in October the sound of the gas valve closing was clearly heard all over the house, it sounded like the pipe was being hit with a 2X4.



Realizing the sound was being amplified because it was clamped to the floor joists I used some sliicone rubber sheet to wrap the pi[e at the clamp points and isolate the pipe from the joists. That helped but it was still much too loud.



I recently noticed the noise is much less, if I listen closely I can hear the valve open but if I'm not listening for it I don't hear it. I assume the valve has just worked its way in but I really don't know why the noise is markedly lower.



Now if I could figure out a cure for the combustion noise I'd be a happy camper.



Bob

SWEI

yet another good reason

why modulating burners should be the norm and not the exception.  Really.