There's never money to do it right................

S Ebels

This is a classic case of the old adage "There's never money to do it right but there's always money to do it over".

About 5-6 years ago we were asked to provide a heating system for a small factory that made rustic wood furniture. After looking at the plan and noting that there would be a TON of sawdust, plus a spray finishing room, (think lacquer and varnish) I came to the conclusion that there weren't going to be any fuel fired appliances in the building itself. I designed a system using an outdoor Raypak and a couple large hydronic air handlers with explosion proof motors. These worked out just dandy for the building, which was about 5,500 sq ft.

Then two years ago they put up another building of the same size and wanted me to do the heating work again. The use of the second building was the same with lots of sawdust in the picture. I suggested the same type of system only this time they said they had someone who told them he could heat it for a lot less $$.$$. When I asked them what exactly was going to be installed they told me they were going with high intensity tube heaters on the ceiling. I informed them that I would not install that type of equipment in the building due to the fire hazard. After stating this, I got the classic response, "The other contractor says it will work just fine". After a little more conversation it was apparent that it was a lost cause and I gave up.

This fall, Andy and Mark serviced the boiler and airhandlers and commented about the amount of sawdust they observed on reflectors over the tube heaters when they came back.

As I write this, both buildings are laying in a twisted, black, pile of ashes and sheetmetal. Burned flat to the ground. The guy from the state fire marshall's office doing the investigation was out at the site this morning and I stopped by to chat with him a bit. He asked if I knew anything about the buildings and I told him basically what I just detailed above. He then said that the tube heaters were the number one suspect at this point. (Duh! go figure that out!)

In the immortal words of Dan, "You can't make this stuff up"!

The company lost 2-5,500 sq ft buildings, probably 1/2 to 3/4 of a million in machinery plus a large inventory of wood ranging from maple and cherry to oak and walnut. Probably another 1/2 a mil.

Like I said, "There's never................

Mark Hunt

Ah geeze


I hope no-one was hurt.

I wonder what that other contractor is thinking right now?

Might be a very expensive lesson, enough to put someone out of business.

They can't say they weren't warned.

Mark H

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Steamhead

I don't suppose

there were any inspections when the place was built, eh?

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J.C.A._3

Steve,

Like Mark, I really hope no one got hurt, but have to warn you to be expecting calls from the Lawyers. The insurance co. WILL be looking for a scapegoat in this, and hopefully you'll have your butt covered.

Good records are a necessity. Lessons learned and heeded to this day! If your job is the last one on record(see the no inspection post from Steamhead) be prepared to show them the facts. CYA brother! Chris

todd s

Air filtration

Just curious, what type of air filtration would you use in such a case? I would think any conventional type filters would clog too quickly.

Larry (from OSHA)

and what do those eyes see?

Oh man, what a deal. I want to say "I can't believe it", but sadly, I can. I stopped getting surprised about stuff a long time ago, but geeze, who couldn't see this one coming. I'd be curious to see just who gets squeezed on this one.

Larry (from OSHA)

Rookie

Did you service the Units?

If you did stop posting on the subject. Been there done that, everyone who looked at them ( Heaters) are on the hook for some dough make sure your house is in order.

S Ebels

No one hurt

The fire started about a half hour after they closed for the day.

S Ebels

Our installation

I had my design plan reviewed by the State mechanical boys in Lansing and inspected after completion. As for the other install, I have no idea. I have to think that type of heater would not have passed in an explosive environment.

S Ebels

Andy and Mark

Made a note of the dust on the December service call form.

S Ebels

Filters

No they didn't last long. But what else are you going to do?

We built filter racks that held 4 25x25 filters and used the deep pleated variety whenever we changed them. filter life was about 3-5 weeks depending on the shop activity.

S Ebels

Nope

I flat out told the manager there I didn't want anything to do with them. To me. it was about the most idiotic form of heating one could ever install in a place like that.

I have a hunch that the plant manager at the time (no longer employed there) installed them himself after the building was inspected and approved as cold storage. I remember him telling me about how he had one in his own woodshop at home. No contractor in his right mind would have installed infra-red tube heaters in that place.

Constantin

... if that's the case...

... sounds to me like you're not only off the hook but that el plant manager is going to have some difficult days ahead. I doubt that the insurance company will pay under these circumstances, I know I wouldn't.

Just goes to show, you can't fix stupid.

Anyway, I wonder why these sorts of environments aren't heated via floor radiation more often. Is it the need to anchor stuff to the ground that drives air or ceiling based systems?

hr

Radiant floors

is a great way to heat a wood working shop. AHs just tend to make the dust condition worse.

A good dust exhaust system at every tool helps a lot also, although costly.

If the filters need that frequent of a change out what about the lungs of the workers?

hot rod

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Mike Reavis_2

Let's hope that the heater's manufacturer had nothing to

do with approving this application. Look for more of this nonsense to occur with equipment being made available through new "avenues" to the end user.
Mike

Nick W

these infered tube heaters

do they have the honeycomb type of burners(where you can see
the gas burning.

or does the flame burn in the tube,and the combution products go out side,thru a flu pipe and combustion air is
supplied by another flu pipe also going out doors.?

Mad Dog

Jerks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank GOD no one was hurt. You did the right thing refusing to even go near them and chronicling the dust on your report - you'll be fine. I've walked away from several jobs like that over the years...as the owner gives you that look like: "....you gotta be kidding! youre too much....your just looking to 'make a job' out of this....another guy said I was a very difficult and stubborn person'....yes, I am I replied...when it comes to safety, I will not relent. Mad Dog

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Dave Bush

The \"Co-ray-vac\" system

Is a tube-fired combustion system, but requires filters that look like 2 1-pound coffee cans to be installed on the the burners, with gaskets. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of putting these in a woodshop. Those filters, which are mounted high in the air (Hard to get to...) would probably need to be replaced on a weekly basis in that environment. There is a "vacuum pump" on this one that removes the products of combustion from the building, sorta like a B-F-Power-Venter. :} It's a nice system for auto service garage retrofits, I installed one in a dealaership in 1997, (They HAD 15 unvented IR heaters hanging above each bay, at the time) and had my first "breakdown" on the thing last week, which was a failed board due to dirty power problems.

If it were a new building, though, infloor is the ONLY way to go, IMO, on a scale that size, although the boom-proof fan coils with an outdoor boiler seems like a really decent idea. I wonder what the cost difference would be between the two?

There are other tube heaters that fire directly to a "flue", which I looked at and then looked away from for the one I installed.