MA Code question

J.C.A._3

I will make a copy of this and show it to all the P.O.'d homeowners that have questioned my decision to install one in the last 4 years!(I don't understand why either)

By the way, for all you guys that do commercial buildings.... be prepared to be installing MANUAL RE-SET HIGH LIMITS in the future. It is in the Mass. code now, but insurance companies are catching on and I'm sure they will be required equipment for all systems in the not too distant future. (See Scott' post on the garage install)

If the code were to be enforced to the tee, you would be required to pull a permit and change an oil line everytime you changed a fuel filter. You have , at this point,made an alteration to the fuel system. Imagine how the coffers of the local inspectors could be enhanced....if it didn't take them 2 years to get to an inspection for the storage of fuel. Luckily, the local F.D.'s know how to interpret the codes in a safe and sane way. Just something to chew on. Chris

Constantin

Are LWCO's required in MA?

Our Vitola is installed in the basement, with a radiant slab below and radiant in the stories above. Is a LWCO required under those circumstances? Specifically, does Cambridge have such a requirment?

I don't know if the Vitola has some of its own protections built in or not, but note w/interest that the installation manual explicitly mentions where LWCO's can be fitted, if needed, and that the Viessmann pump control panel has a set of terminal strips for LWCO's...

BTW, the pump noise has largely gone away now that the pumps are running based on need (controlled by Tekmar thermostats and a Tekmar 369), not 24/7. Ah... bliss!

Firedragon_4

The MA

Boiler Rules require a cutoff whenever there is radiation below the boiler level and I'm relatively sure it's also in the Plumbing Code.

BTW, since I've had a bunch of calls on these other topics this week here goes:

YES, you must pull a permit when you replace an oil line in MA and you have had to since 1995, FACT! Stop calling me to tell me you screwed up, hehehehehe :-)

On fluepipes (chimney connectors, etc.) NFPA211 which is the venting code everywhere you must use the following pipe construction to comply with the codes and OEM I&O Manuals:
6" or less may be 26 gauge.

6" to 10" must be 24 gauge.

10" to 16" must be 22 gauge and anything over 16" must be 16 gauge as per Table 6-2.2.3

And don't yell at me I'm just the messenger.

Unknown

Yes. It's required.

You must have one installed because you have RFH tubing below the Vitola. The Cambridge inspector will (should) require this because it's in our 248 CMR code. Remember code is the minimum standard. Even if code doesn't require it, I'm sure you will want one.

Glad to hear most of the "white noise" has gone away. After all the hard work you have done to make your system the best it can be, I'd sure have hated to see you unhappy with hydronic related noise issues. Hydronics is suppose to be silent. Still believe the Mupro hangers will help even further reduce your noise. Wasn't air after all. Was it?


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Constantin

Probably not air...

... the pumps are pretty silent, after all. I presume there may be some bits and pieces of unreamed piping in the risers that are causing the noise via flow. However, w/o taking the pipes apart, there is no way of knowing. Seeing how well they put the pipes together, I doubt that they weren't reamed...

There is a lot less noise now that all the pumps are no longer running 24/7 - the Tekmar staging via a 369 is working great. In the meantime, we're going to try the Mupro hangers.

I'm also muy impressed by the Vitotronic controls, even w/o a manual you can learn to use the basic features fairly quickly. I think it's about time I wrote a Vitola review for the On the Job Section...

Anyway, regarding the LWCO... For all I know, they've already scheduled installing the LWCO and flue gas sensor. I just wanted to know whether its required to ensure that it's on their punch list as the finish date for their system install approaches. After all, the Viessmann may already incorporate some sort of LWCO and hence may not require a separate one.

Constantin

One more question, if I may...

After reading Firedragons post and Gary Wallace's there seems little room for interpretation re: LWCO's.

However, my installer wrote back to me today claiming that a LWCO is only required if ALL radiation is below the boiler as opposed to SOME.

When I peruse the Boiler Rules for MA, on page 64 it says:
(3) Requirements for Hot Water Heating Boilers
(a) Each automatically fired hot water heating boiler except those installed in residences (as defined by the authority having jurisdiction) shall be protected by a low water fuel cutoff or combined feeder cutoff device suitable for hot water service.

I will look up CMR 248 next...

Constantin

CMR 248 and other findings...

On the one hand, 248 CMR Section 7.02 seems to require something like a LWCO, though a limit control can come in many shapes and forms.
(5)   Limit Controls.
(a)   A limit control shall be provided to prevent excessive steam pressure in a steam boiler or excessive pressure or temperature in a hot water boiler. Also, each steam and hot water boiler shall be equipped with a control which will prevent firing of the boiler in the event of insufficient water in the boiler. The limit control shall be in addition to operating controls. Manual restart shall be required after a pressure or temperature limit control functions.

Then in 522 CMR Section 5.07, I ran across the following:
(15) Low Water Fuel Cutoff.
(a) Each automatically fired hot water heating boiler with heat output greater than 200,000 BTU’s/hr shall have an automatic low water fuel cutoff which has been designed for hot water service and it shall be so located as to automatically cut off the fuel supply when the surface of the water falls to the level established in 522 CMR 5.07(15)(b).

Well, we only have a input rating of 139kBTU, so we slide under this requirement. Then, in section 16.01 of 522 CMR, I see:

(3) Requirements for Hot Water Heating Boilers
(a) Each automatically fired hot water heating boiler except those installed in residences (as defined by the authority having jurisdiction) shall be protected by a low water fuel cutoff or combined feeder cutoff device suitable for hot water service.

In other words, so far I see plenty of evidence that smaller residential systems require no LWCO. I still think it's a good idea to install one... Your thoughts?

Unknown

News to me!

Smaller residential systems require no LWCO?

Regardless of your input rating, I believe you're installer is incorrect. A LWCO has always been required of me if ANY radiation is below the boiler as opposed to SOME of it. This makes perfect sense. I have always been required to do so in ALL of my systems (big or small) in MA by all inspectors if I have ANY radiation below the boiler. What we are trying to prevent here is: dry firing. Unlikely as this is to occur, redundancy is in place for safety sake. A 24VAC Guard Dog™ or other LWCO is cheap insurance. This shows once again how codes are written with ambiguity and are a minimum standard.

Give the inspector some of the orange Kool-Aid;-)

Gary

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Constantin

Gary, couldn't agree more...

... but we've not had our inspection... yet.

In the meantime, I'd love to know if there is a mandate for a LWCO in residential boilers anywhere, as I have yet to find it either in the boiler rules or the CMR docs. That's not to say that I may have missed it somewhere... perhaps Cambridge has its own supplments to the MA and CMR rules?

Anyway, I think I will still ask for a LWCO so I can turn off the water feeder. The LWCO protects the boiler... and any leaks should be discovered before they turn the house into a big mess.

EBEBRATT-Ed_8

Constantin,

I am not up to date on oil-I have ordered a new oil code. But my MASS. gas code (which is also old) 248 CMR pg. 262 "National Fuel Gas Code " section 6.3.4 states:

Low water cutoff

"Hot water boilers installed above the radiation level and all steam boilers shall be provided with an automatic means to shut off the fuel supply to the burner(s)if the boiler water level drops to thelowest safe water line".

Ed

Mark Eatherton1

Cheap insurance...

We install a LWCO and a LPCO on every system we install. Its one of those things that makes us different from the "competition".

ME

Constantin

What brands do you prefer?

I have heard good and bad things about the McDonnell Miller stuff. Hydrolevels offerings have also been mentioned. Which LWCO, LPCO should I chose for a HW heating system whose operating pressure is ~12-15 psi?

As always, many thanks for your thoughts!

ed wallace

lwco

constintin what kind of inspection are you awaiting if its for the oil fired boiler from fire department then inspector is only interested in the oil burner, tank, and oil line

Constantin

Ed, there is no rush...

... we will have an inspection at some point. Whether the oil codes call for a LWCO/LPCO or not, I think I will ask for one as per Mark Eathertons suggestion. I am happy to pay my contractor to do that, now the question is what brand/type of LPCO and/or LWCO I should install.

Firedragon_4

Ed's right,

the Fire Inspector won't be looking for it and the plumbing guy will probably miss it, most do.

Not a plug, but I've had a Hydrolevel here on a water boiler since 1980. Checks out every year and does the job, FACT!

My home, my butt, wouldn't sleep over ANY boiler without one, JMO!

Dan_15

LWCO

I just put in a Buderus G215/4 and I asked my installer about LWCO. He said its not necessary in MA residential. I have to admit the fire inspection was pretty cursory. They just checked the flue to make sure it was tight; they missed the fact that I had no drop legs on pressure valves (which was later remedied by the installer). Incidentally, my oil line was replaced, and I dont remember any permit for that.

Dan_15

LWCO

I just put in a Buderus G215/4 and I asked my installer about LWCO. He said its not necessary in MA residential. I have to admit the fire inspection was pretty cursory. They just checked the flue to make sure it was tight; they missed the fact that I had no drop legs on pressure valves (which was later remedied by the installer). Incidentally, my oil line was replaced, and I dont remember any permit for that.

Firedragon_4

It's on Form 1

with the oilburner and tank permit. We tried to make it and keep it simple.

Low-water cutoff's are only required when the radiation is below the boiler on residential water.

Carl PE

Constantin

I can't help you with specific MA codes, but here's what the 2000 IMC has to say..

1007.1 - General: All steam and hot water boilers shall be protected with a low-water cutoff control.

1007.2 - Operation: The low-water cutoff shall automatically stop the combustion operation of the appliance when the water level drops below the lowest safe water level as established by the manufacturer.