Flushing flux out

Spudwrench

What's the best way to flush flux out of a newly installed hydronic system? Per radiator manufacturer's procedure (I ran system for 2 hrs continuously, drained, refilled) and then let system power purge for a while after that. Is that good enough? On the one hand, introducing too much oxygen rich fresh water into the system by flushing too much is bad, on the other hand, you don't want lots of corrosive flux circulating around either. How do the pros do it? The system uses Myson panel rads & all copper piping with the exception of a little ferrous stuff near boiler. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Nathan

kevin coppinger_4

Rhomar....

water conditioning products...kpc

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hr

I like to use a

htdronic system cleaner. Water, especially hot, works for any water soluable fluxes. Cutting oils, pipe dope, assembly lube and greases, etc all need to be disolved with a cleaner. I like the Rhomar "all metal" friendly product also.

I'd like to see you add an inhibitor after the cleaning for the exact reasons you mentioned. O2 scavanger, locks up hardness, provides a protective film on all the components, balances ph, etc.

hot rod

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George_10

spudwrench

Give me a call at 800-543-5975. We have exactly what you need to clean and protect your new system. Our web address is www.RhomarWater.com

George@RhomarWater.com

RoosterBoy

I did not know that you had clean the baseboard lines after you install them I just use the flux brush right after I solder and it gives it a clean finish then after 30 mins or so I take a dry rag and wipe the joints down.

the only time I drain the baseboard loop is to purge the air out

I also drain the the whole return manifold to push air out is this enough or what should I do

thanks

hr

It's the inside!

of the pipe that needs to be cleaned. This is becoming very, very important with the condensing style boilers that use aluminum and or stainless steel HXers. Clean surfaces and ph balance is a must!

These ain't yer old cast iron boat anchors HXers

hot rod

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George_10

Cast Iron Mentality

is the mind set that we are changing as I talk to contractors who are starting to use these new boilers. HR is correct, in fact in March; we are participating in a seminar being put on by Able Distributors in Chicago. The TLC that these new systems require will be the general topic.

It should be a great info session as HR will be there, Drew from Noble (glycol), a WM boiler rep and ourselves; plus the Able staff. Any of you in that area should ask Able for more info on this seminar. It should be time well spent.

We are witnessing an event, similar to what a black smith saw when the automobile first arrived. I have a relative that experinced just that happening. He started a car dealership and had to teach the farmers to drive before he could sell them a truck or car.

Cast iron boilers and black pipe can take a lot of abuse. These new systems are intolerant of this kind of care. Education and training are absolutly going to be the by-word in order to gain the efficiency and lower heating bills that these new systems can generate.

George_10

Plumber Dude

PS

I know this is wandering from the initial thread, but what about the millions of distribution systems that can't take advantage of the condensing boilers and their SS and Al HX's? The CI boilers are tried and true - and not everyone can (or will) renovate their homes to install low return temp systems. Just 'cause it's old don't mean it's broke

George_10

Older existing systems

Cleaning and treating older cast iron boiler/pipe/copper systems will improve their efficiency also. Scale and or corrosion build up on the metal surfaces, specifically the HX will increae the work load on the boiler trying to bring the system to temperature. This shows up in increased energy use or heating bills. 1/8 inch of scale on a heat exchanger can result in a 25% loss of boiler efficiency.
In these days of high cost oil, gas, and propane; that can be a substantial increase in the heating bill. Another factor is the ongoing damage to pumps, zone valves and pipe due to corrosion. The bottom line is this. Cleaning and treating a system is far less expensive than repairs, replacements and higher energy expenses. The industrial market has done this for years. Their matra is prevention is cost effective. It is the residential market that is behind the curve.

hr

PS, ps

I agree cast iron is still the prefered material for many boiler applications, and copper certainly has a place in this arena. we should see this material used for years to come.

Personally I feel ALL hydronic systems, regardless of materials, should be properly cleaned, and treated.

Cast iron, due to the wall thickness seems to tolerate bad water quality longer than thin stainless materials, I feel. Although they are getting thinner and lighter all the time with improved materials and methods.

Doesn't take much of a build up layer the start dropping efficiencies be it a boiler, HX, pipe wall, etc. Regardless of the materials used.

You may think you have a 85% efficient heat source, according to the label on the equipment, add a few thousands lime build up and the number starts dropping.

Efficient HXers like plate type will show this decrease in heat transfer efficiency rather quickly. Same with electric water heater elements

hot rod

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Spudwrench

I'll look into the Rhomar products...thanks for the advice, gents.

Nathan

Unknown

I agree with Hot Rod

We always pipe the PRV into the common return pipe so we can purge the zones out with hot boiler water . Makes knowing when you're done real easy and washes the system out as best you can without cleaners .