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Garage radiant photos (s milne)

ScottMP
ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
in THE MAIN WALL
Friend of mine who is a landscaper, who also does site work and plowing.

We purchased some Wiel-McLain tubing from a supplier who wasn't using it anymore so we got a deal for my friend.

We installed the tubing over insulatarp and then Chris installed the boiler.

Because of the number of loops we went for a four way valve with two circulators for good flow. Tekmar four-way, Tekmar motor and 360 for mixing and reset.

This is a three bay garage where they work on the trucks and his guys LOVE IT.

The manifold I think was over kill with the draw-offs, but the guys wanted to make sure everything was purged. I told them it would have worked with one, but live and learn :)

Scott


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Comments

  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Sweet setup!

    That system should provide tons of comfort and the Pro-press crimps help make it look neat. You know I am a big fan of motorized 4-way valves, they are a great way to provide boiler protection and save on energy costs.

    As always, the piping is true, the Pro-press crimps are neat, and the boiler looks happy on its stand. Your clients must be ecstatic not only because the system is economical to run but because working on/underneath a truck is no longer a painfully cold excercise.

    Anyone that likes their mechanics (including themselves!) to work in comfort ought to have radiant floors in their garages... if its good enough for the aircraft maintenance industry...

    Congrats again.
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    everytime I see S Milne in the subject line I know im in for a real treat. the work you do is unbelievable and love looking at your job photos nice work Scott keep the pictures coming I wish I had you here in Connecticut when I had my buderus put in.

    thanks
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    that looks very cool. *~/;)

    that looks like a large garage...are you talking about somewhere near 3800 sq ft?
    i would like to see the single purge myself buh what the hey :) i wonder about supply and return tmps alot are you going for the motorized mixer or variable speed off a fixed mix?
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Weezbo

    Its a motorized mixer. The Tekmar 360 tells the 4-way what temp it wants to see going out to the loops.

    Thanks

    Scott

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  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Thank You

    I really appreciate the kind words. Chris A. do's the most of these installs and from what we both learn from the wall we get nice installs.

    Scott

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  • Darin Cook_3
    Darin Cook_3 Member Posts: 389
    Nice Job

    That is quite the manifold. I have never seen anyone build a circuit manifold out of iron pipe before. I think the building will fall down before the manifold ever lets go. Keep up the good work.






    Darin
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Like I told the owner....

    I want to be one of the Dead Men when this thing starts to break down.

    One other thing I liked abou this one was laying the oil line. I got the tank placement and got it inside the perimeter insulation.The tank is indoors and the line is getting heated all the time. Cold oil will never be a problem here! I'll see if I can get some finished pictures for the wall. Thanks for the kind words Darin.

    Weezbo, I started the floor for heat at around 70° and brought it up gradually over the day to let the mixer run it automatically.(6" slab and I don't/didn't want to have any cracks!) After the first night, the crew asked me to turn it down a bit and it was going out at 90° and returning at 72°. I lowered the curve on the 360 and set the max mix to 110. the mixer seems to be hunting for between 85° and 88° to maintain the ambient temp at 67°. Hope that satisfies your curiosity. Chris
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    i was just testin you :)) :))

    You will be tested on this later! ;) Scott one of my buddies along time ago had a word for people who asked question to which they already Knew the answer ..."Are you sure you dontAlready Know the Answer ?" :)
    i thought you would like the perspective change up :) it would be like pointing out the need for some more pipe in the potable water :)) except it sounds like it might make sence:))))
  • Joe@buderus
    Joe@buderus Member Posts: 165
    Nice job

    As usual Scott - great job! Like how you left a piece of cardboard over the top of the Buderus boiler to prevent scratches, dents, etc.... Too bad manifold is behind the boiler, something that neat should be on display! Thanks
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Joe,Thanks for noticing.

    Wish you could see some of the NASTY massages I leave on those covers.My first big install for Milne P&H was a two 215's with 8 zones and a radiant manifold. (Scott has the photos) The insulators felt that the cover of both boilers was a good place to STAND while doing their work, and the painters decided that the boiler room was a good place to spray about 60 shutters while the boilers ran full tilt boogie.It only took about 3 hours to completely disassemble the burners and erradicate the green paint from all the air handling components of the Riello burners.

    My favorite is when I spend all the time to cover the jacket/covers to keep them from getting all scarred up, and the electrician decides it's in the way. They usually use the top for a base of operation for all the tools and their flipping boxes. I had a homeowner give an electrician a ration for removing the cardboard that I placed there and all the scratches that were present when he was done.

    This is just one of the little things that make a big difference on the job. A homeowner notices that the jacket is nice and that you tried to protect it during the installation. Luckily, I work for great folks, and they really appreciate the little things that we do to make everything look its best when we are done.

    Hint to all....The boxes that come with MOST boilers make excellent caps to keep out the desbris of installation. Chris
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Work of art

    once again Chris and Scott . I love the black steel manifold , must have took alot of patience to thread all of it together .

    What a way to heat a garage ! Our own shop's garage is huge and is heated by a few oil fired Modines . The place has a few hotspots , but by and large it's a cold place in the winter . I bet a radiant heated floor would save fuel compared to those Modines - and make working in there real comfortable . You have a smart landscaper friend Scott . Keep posting pics of the excellent work Chris and yourself do .
  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    My right arm hurts

    just looking at that manifold and thinking of all the wrenching that took. How'd you get them all straight's what I'd like to know. Nice work. WW

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  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    I know time is money,

    how long have the PP joints been tested?

    I Appreciate good workmanship produced in the quest for excellence.

    Yes sir, I want to be just like you guy's when I grow up.

    If it were my garage I wouldn't let you have that much space.

    al
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    What's the overhead tank?

    Excellent work!


    Scott/Chris, what is the large black tank above the 4 way valve?


    Out of curiousity, how much do each of those manifolds weigh? =)
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718


    Nice job guys. I've been trying to get people to do garage/shops in radiant lately but no takers. Everyone wants "the cheap"..

    I'm glad to see someone doing it.

    PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718


    Looks like a cast iron drain.

    PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    Thanks

    I thought it was a tank of some kind. Actually, I had no idea what it was. I've never seen a "new" cast iron drain. Sad eh?
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    I knew someone would see that !

    Sorry Ted, that's a 4"vent pipe. There will (hopefully) never be any water in it.
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Al

    Thats one thing I have learned over the years ... Fight for space. Its ingrained into the building trades .... you get that spot over there in the corner behind the closet, and by the way, the central vac will go in there also.

    You know What ? I DON"T THINK SO >> :)

    We need space to work and service our equipment. The heating of the building is Critical and is not a necessary evil to be squeezed into the corner.

    Thanks for the nice words Al and "IF" the PP fittings ever fail, you guys will be the first to here about it.

    Scott

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  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Scott,


    How frequent does the boiler cycle? It seems like a very low mass system.
    I use my IDHWH for a buffer to increase the time between firing. You have an anti scald, right? I set the aquastat to 165 and no closed valves between the IDHWH and the boiler, simple buffer tank.

    al
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    You leave people NASTY massages? :-)

    So what happens after you give them the backrub they'd like to forget? No wonder the other trades steer a wide berth around you. (just kidding!)

    Anyway, I hear what you're saying because I fight some of the same issues on my job site every day. 99% of the time, the guys have been utterly great, it's that last 1% that can still get my goat, from time to time.

    I don't like to come to jobsites where there are more empty or half-full cups of Dunkin Donuts coffee lying around than workers on site. This is particularly prevalent whenever the walls are still open and people forget food, drink, whatever in the stud bays.

    Watching the guys encroach with their trucks on 130 year-old trees made me see red. The fencing I had put up was there for a reason, yet people would bull-doze it accidentally, never put it back up, and then park closer and closer to the trees once more. The front yard parking area expanded until I came back with metal fencing from Home Despot. It's a bit more resiliant and the point was made.

    Inside the home, the trades have been pretty careful for the most part to not damage each others work. Here credit obviously goes to the great tradespeople our GC hired, as well as the GC, for staging work in such a manner to allow everyone room to breathe and do their job.

    Our sparky does a great job, the stuff looks super. I don't think he'd ever dream of putting his case on Ms. Vitola, even though she is only draped with bubble-foil for protection. However, considering that the boiler was operational during plastering, painting next door, etc. I've already scheduled a full maintenance breakdown of the boiler / burner at the end of the project to get the dirt out and to downfire it to a .75gph nozzle.
  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Constantin & NASTY

    Be aware when the painters clean their utensils, they don't carry any waste tanks. Your topsoil pile and tree roots get the waste. They will spin their brushes all over what they think are weeds. Don't open what you think is an empty covered drywall compound bucket either.

    al
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Thanks for the heads-up...

    ... I will look out for that. One advantage we have is that the house will have at least 6" of new topsoil put around it. However, even while the demo was going on, I'd clean the clay down as best as I could around the house. Glass and other nasties have a way of staying sharp for a long time and if you don't expect them, you might find them while not wearing protective garmets.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Interesting Point...

    But how little mass is low mass? Your point is certainly well taken during summer operation when just the superstor bubbles away.

    In the winter, I think the tubing, concrete, etc. provide plenty of mass to ensure long firing times, especially if the boiler was sized right (which I presume it was, consider who installed it).
  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Why not use the water,

    Keep in mind the boiler does not modulate, the mixing valve takes care of the heat-curve change(out door reset). The less btu's needed the larger the boiler becomes for the demand.

    In the summer, when no call for heat, the aquastat operates on the low limit and can be set to provide the IDHWH 160* water, that's were the anti scald valve hot in is calibrated. Or is cold start if IDHWH is on a zone controller, in that case it will act as call for heat. (High Limit)

    It's just sitting there? The difference is it's kept hot and helping meet the heating demand or you need to heat it to meet another demand.

    A low mass boiler drops 10 or 15, depending on which aquastat, degrees very fast and recovers very fast(short cycle?)yes.

    al
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Got some finished pictures.

    Fhanks for the feedback everyone. Chris
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Got some finished pictures.

    Fhanks for the feedback everyone. Chris
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Got some finished pictures.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. Chris
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Quick bump.

    Eleft, I'm running the boiler at the high limit of 160°, being cautious. I could probably lower it to 150, but the differential in the 8148 seems to be about 18°, and I want to keep the boiler above condensation temps(120°). The flue piping is attached to a Tjernlund HS-1 on the floor above and I want NO PROBLEMS with leaky flue pipes or rotting flue connectors.

    My biggest problem is that I also have to service these installs. Scott and I have come to an amicable arrangement in that, I will make any part that will need serviced as easy as possible to do so. 10 bucks for an isolation valve will pay for itself the first time I have to repair anything that could possibly go wrong.

    I'm going to have to agree with Scott on the space thing too. In our area, heating is not an option, it is a NECCESITY, and if the designer isn't going to give me enough room, it's time to find someone else. I have to be able to do my job to the best of my ability, and cramped quarters ain't my way!

    This has been a teaching and learning experience for both the building owner and me. I made suggestions, explained them and he was more than willing to go along with almost all of my thoughts. A rare and quality owner, to be sure, but not an anomily. If you can explain why, I think most home/business owners will listen and heed our advice. Chris
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