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Home Owner with Balancing Question

Marc_5
Marc_5 Member Posts: 4
I had/have a section of my house that is is colder then the rest. My heating company replaced my boiler (baseboard forced hot water system) a year ago (nothing to do with this problem - had a leak) and it seemed to get a little worst (not positive). The colder area is a kitchen & mud room (tiled floors) at the far end of the house from the boiler with 3 outside walls. It also doesn't have a lot of baseboard along the outside walls (kitchen has 3 baseboards - 1 on an outside wall & mud room has 1 on the outside wall) due to cabinets and a french door.

When I discussed this with my heating company they said that based on all the outside walls, doors, windows, tiled floors, and baseboard positions (mostly at one end of kitchen toward middle of house) that the best way to fix would be to either add a heater under the cabinets (some kind of electrical w/blower) or create another zone (had 4 initially - 2 upsatirs and 2 on 1st floor). I choosed to add the fifth zone.

They completed the work the other day and I still think I may have a problem. It definitely improved, but I'm not positive that the circulator (or something is just right) is sized right (Taco 007-F5 - serving all 5 zone valves). I've only had one really cold day since they did the work, but it seemed to take the kitchen a lot longer to get to temperature then some of the other zones. It is on a set back thermostat (along with one other zone) and when I got up I checked and four out of the five zones were calling for heat (the 2 set backs had just moved the temperature up). All the other zones got satisfied before the kitchen area and it went for about an hour after (not sure during the hour how many others called for heat) before it reached the desired temperture (71).

I guess the reason I'm concerned about the circulator is that the original boiler (w/ 4 zones) had a much bigger pump/motor (by size - don't know any specs.). When I asked them about it they said that the new pump (much smaller/physically) is much more efficient. Now with the 5th zone I'm even more concerned.

I guess my bottom line question is, does it sound right that a Taco 007-F5 can serve 5 zones in NY (saw -13 two weeks ago) in a decent size Colonial (4+ bedrooms)? If yes, what would you suggest to balance the house better?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Comments

  • Fred Harwood
    Fred Harwood Member Posts: 261
    Initally

    reduce or eliminate the setback on the zone that takes the longest to rewarm. Also consider reducing the setback on additional zones. Others here may have more particulars.
  • Marc_5
    Marc_5 Member Posts: 4
    Set Backs Settings

    Just to provide more information - the two set backs are for the two most utilized areas of my house (kitchen & mud room / Family Rm & Office). The other 3 zones (2 are bedroom zones on the 2nd floor and the other a rarely used living room & dining room on the 1st floor taking up the front half of the house) are kept at between 60 - 64 almost all the time. I have 2 set back zones set to 71 degrees in the AM and dropping to 60 at night.

    Is the swing too much? Should I raise the other zones so as not to influence the other set back areas? Obvivously I'm using the set backs to lower energy cost. I'm trying to balance comfort with fuel cost. Is what I'm doing making sense? Is the right way to solve this problem to not drop temperature so much (house is pretty tight, usually house only drops to around 65 at night unless it is really cold)?
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    No plateau...

    If you are setting back and the temperature doesn't reach the lower plateau, you aren't really saving much at all. You consume pretty well what you saved having to reheat the mass. The savings happen while your house is at the set back temperature. Your house isn't reaching that level. Your main problem is that your kitchen rad is marginal for the space it needs to heat. Setting back just makes it worse because the other rooms can recover faster. You either need to have the kitchen start recovering sooner or add more BTUs to its output so it can recover as fast as the rest of the house if you want to have both set back and comfort.
  • Marc_5
    Marc_5 Member Posts: 4
    Calling Zones

    Does having multiple zones calling for heat at the same time play into this much? I'm pretty sure the boiler isn't having a problem (doesn't appear to be cycling to often), but again not sure what happens to GPM through multiple zones opening at the same time. Does the flow go down when more zones are open? I would think it does because wouldn't the head pressure increase as the valves open? I guess my original question is still not clear to me. Can this pump handle all 5 zones? If yes, I'm clear with your answer and need to allow this zone more time to recover or reduce the temperature drop.
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    Zones

    With all zones open, I doubt your circulator has a hard time with having adequate flow. The big issue is more about where the water goes? It will follow the path of least resistance. If one of your zones is smaller has less resistance to the flow, then more water and more BTUs will go through it and it will satisfy the heat requirements of its space quicker than some of the other zones and then that zone valve will close. The only reason you might want to add a circulator is to give you more control over a particular zone, but that could also be done by balancing it.
  • John B
    John B Member Posts: 1


    I have no doubt that the 007 will do the job for all the zones.. Reading over the topics, I have to ask if any balancing valves were installed. If you shunt the other zones you allow full flow to the problem area. Good Luck
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    How about going a few days with no setback in the kitchen, then set back just one degree for a few more days? Etc., until you find how low you can go without problems in the morning.

    With three exposed walls and limited baseboard, that's going the be the space that not only looses heat faster than the rest, but has less excess capacity in the baseboard to raise the space temp.
  • Marc_5
    Marc_5 Member Posts: 4
    Balancing Valves?

    Not sure what balancing valves look like or where they would be (I do understand why you might have to balance a system). I don't believe any were installed previously or when the 5th zone was installed. I do have ball valves on all the returns that could be throttled to somewhat balance each zone, but don't know if that would be proper. My other thought would be does balancing actually help here because the problem seem to be more of heat loss/and BTU capacity. Does increasing the flow to this zone by restricting another drive the temperature up that much quicker (isn't it limited by the amount of baseboard)? Also how does energy efficiency play into this?

    My guess is that I need to do what many have recommended and not setback the temperature so much (less recovery needed) or increase the recovery time which will lead to less competition with the other zones. Last night I made no changes (up to 71 @ 4:30AM - not sure what temp dropped to but no worse then >60), and it took about 3 hours to get to 71. The outside temperature was mid 30's which is pretty moderate/warm for this time of year. I have a usage counter in the thermostat and the zone was active for 7+ hours total yesterday which I can use to compare to not dropping the temperature so much and see what the usage is if I just maintain the temp.

    A cold spell is coming so I'll get to try some of these suggestions. My wife is quite happy with the improved temperature, so I guess everything else is a plus.

    I appreciate eveyones help and this is a great web site. If I ever need heat work done again, I will definitely come here and see if you have anyone in my area that is recommended. Thanks a lot!
  • jeff_51
    jeff_51 Member Posts: 545
    as long as the wife is happy

    you have no real problems!!!!
This discussion has been closed.