CO death in Mass and the codes

ScottMP

of a small girl the Mass politicians are jumping on the band wagon. Finaly some light has been shined but as usual it has to be a tragic loss to get the fire burning.

My concern is that it is not the governing boards that are addressing this but the politicians. What sort of changes will they be trying to implement.

I know I am peeing into the wind here, but why they politicos and not the people who actually understand the problem. I shuder to think what changes they will try and implement.

I have heard they will be pushing for CO dectetors in every home. Will that mean a rush on $ 24.00 units at the Big Box stores ?

Scott

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Firedragon_4

I can tell

you that the Board of Fire Preventions (BFP) which takes in the Marshal's Office, the Insurance Board and both the Fire Prevention Association of MA(FPAM) and the Chief's group are on top of this.

There's a meeting next Wednesday of the FPAM and we'll see.

The fact that this is now a 'big deal' makes the politocos get hot, so that's why they are taking the lead. I don't care as long as something GOOD happens.

But, in the long run you're probably right Scott.

I was one of the pushers of smoke detectors. It has helped, no doubt about that. But again, between people who don't change batteries and buy cheap crap, ya gotta wonder. THIS IS THEIR FAMILY!

In the meantime, numbers prove it's worth the efforts.

John R. Hall

Cheap CO monitor

As bad as this may sound, a cheap CO monitor is a start. The idea is to get people thinking about the dangers of CO. That is the first hurdle. The second is to get them to have their equipment properly maintained by a professional service tech who TESTS. The third is to get them up to speed on the best CO monitors to buy and why they are the best.

Don't jump on me for the comment on cheap CO monitors -- it is a beginning point -- that is all that it is.

Ted_9

What should happen is what we do with State vehicle inspections. Each station that does emission and safety inspections has to get approval from the state to do it. You just cant got to any mechanic to get a sticker.

Homes should require annual inspection by trained and certified heating professionals(Like Germany?). For a home owner, it would be hard to know who is qualified. Thats why it should be run by the state(I hate to say it) with a list of companies that do this. The companies would be inspected periodicly too. The tech could have some sort of wireless laptop to do the test and the information would go straight to the state. These results would be monitered. That's how vehicles are done now in MA.

Think about it. Cleaner, safer and more environmentally freindly heating units for all.

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Firedragon_4

Ted,

you live in MA and can make a statement like this. C'mon, you'll NEVER see that here until oil is $5.00 a gallon and gas is $6.00 a therm.

Even then it probably won't happen in the good ole USofA, this is not Germany. Annual inspections, humbug and BS!

Want proof? Just look around, gasoline is hovering at or over $2.00 a gallon and suv, truck and luxury car sales are up and the only things selling hotter then those are hybrids that are being bought by the loyal members of the Sierra Club, God bless their tree-huggin little hearts.

This is America, home of waste and extravagence, live a little, turn up the thermostat and open the windows.

Forgive me Ted, just been making a lot of runs into the People's Republic of Cambridge this week. Sitting in traffic and looking at all these multi-family units with the windows open has got to me. If I could get my hands on the energy that's wasted on one block, I could heat my house forever, FACT!

Great idea, they've been talking about it since 1973 and the first embargo, but it ain't gonna happen.

It's kind of like the smoke alarm and CO detector thingy. Great ideas, work like crazy, but just like the HVAC equipment we work on, it takes M-A-I-N-T-E-N-A-N-C-E. That's regretfully when the best intentions go south!

PS

State Involvement

With all due respect, Ted - direct government involvement is not the answer. IE - MA car inspections use central computer system and RMV registrations to track and monitor compliance, etc - and it still doesn't keep clunkers and polluters off the road! I can give you many examples of who to go to or how to do it to get around the process - and how many qualified "new" companies and inspectors do you think will pop up to capitalize on that revenue stream (state inspections)?

Some solutions are HO education, gas utility incentives to HO, fuel and heating companies for inspection/maintenance, and continued best-practices and self-monitoring of contractor work. State, through DTE, could provide.JMHO.

Constantin

Allow me to quibble...

Actually, SUV sales are down... Just look at the ads on TV. The minute a vehicle is sold at 0% down, etc. you know that it's not doing well. Furthermore, consider the demise of the Ford Expedition, it didn't sell nearly as well as they expected.

I agree that the People's Republik of Cambridge (PRC) is filled with a number of interesting characters... soon my wife and I will be some of them. However, I don't think that it's just PRC residents or Sierra members that buy the Prius, Civic, etc. hybrids... otherwise, the production of the Prius wouldn't be sold out, with waiting lists approaching one year... on a smaller vehicle, that is more expensive to buy than its competition.

In my humble opinion, the US car industry will keep missing the boat when it comes to innovations, simply because they keep assuming that consumers aren't willing to pay for cool features. Instead, the old paradigm of cost control reigns, with the obvious, predictable tendency towards mediocrity instead of the innovation that spurred the US car industry before the field was narrowed to three mega-conglomerates.

I think you will find more people thinking about energy conservation as costs go up. The PRC has a lot of programs to help people on asisstance improve their homes at nominal to no cost. However, I doubt that there is awareness out there...

Furthermore, I doubt that annual inspections on their own will improve the situation one iota. The vehicle inspection system in MA was exposed as a sham by the EPA, with arbitrary percentages of vehicles getting flunked not on the basis of science... because the proper instruments were deemed too expensive to install. Like CO Alarms, newer vehicles are supposed to tell the inspection station to flunk them, not the other way around.

I fear the same fate for any furnace/boiler/inspection program. Between the instrument, documentation, and skill requirements, there is ample opportunity for all sorts of trouble. While I think that inspections should be required, there also needs to be a efficient and reliable infrastructure to support said inspections. That is going to be elusive, to say the least.

Ted_9

PS, I respectfully disagree.

We cant get home owners to change the battery in their fire/smoke alarms, what makes you think they care about CO?

I'm not into the government getting more control over our lives, but without an organized system that is enforced, most people will not comply or even care despite education.

Regarding getting around state vehicle inspection: It is alot harder to cheat the system now. I didnt say it was a perfect system either.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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joel_19

Attn firedragon!!!!!

> PS, I respectfully disagree.

>

> We cant get

> home owners to change the battery in their

> fire/smoke alarms, what makes you think they care

> about CO?

>

> I'm not into the government getting

> more control over our lives, but without an

> organized system that is enforced, most people

> will not comply or even care despite education.

> Regarding getting around state vehicle

> inspection: It is alot harder to cheat the

> system now. I didnt say it was a perfect system

> either.

>

> PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 343&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_





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joel_19

Attn firedragon!!!!!

Did you see the article in the MetroWest daily news telling folks to IGNORE THE Potentially CRACKED HEAT EXCHANGER and buy replacement windows instead??? You guys on the fire board should be all over this bozo. He is HOME DEPOTS resident expert at the Bellingham store the ph # is 508 966 9200. The article was written for the paper by a Mr.Peter Lynch, go get him!! I can fax you a copy of the article or better yet who do I fax it to at the Fire Marshals office or state house? What Senators are hopping on this bandwagon?
And can somebody please tell me what went wrong with that house why didn't the pressure switches shut the system down??

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PS

I understand the need for helping to reduce (or eliminate) the tragedy of CO poisoning - I guess the question is what methods and how to best implement.
Too many contractors want to get in and get out, and even more inspectors do little more than show up to sign off. Once the system is installed (correctly or not) - it is totally up to the HO to maintain.

My experience is the BEST way to reach these HO's is via incentives. "Money talks and BS walks!"

The state (MA) already attaches a monthly fee to electric & NG utility bill (not sure with oil) to pay for energy conservation incentives. What about DTE subsidizing fuel companies and contractors for a similar program for safety checks? If you add a small fee and include a flier or rebate coupon or reduced per therm/gal price for annual safety compliance (inspection) - I bet you would see some real movement. Especially considering the costs of fossils and the winter we're experiencing.

Problem is the government doesn't care about your safety. How many more tragedies involve faulty electrical wiring in homes - thousands die every year! In the end - the only motivator for real action will be the market and economics - and I shudder to think what the politicians could do in that regard.

Joel - You don't have any family that works for NGrid, do you?

joel_19

Ngrid

No Idon't that i know of however I have contacts at the major local gas companies. I've called and sent off a copy of the article to them. To say they where alarmed was an understatement.

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PS

I work with an energy engineer over at NGrid in Northboro with same last name - saw your ad address and was just curious.
BTW - Do you come up to Auburn for work? I'm looking to replace my old gas HW boiler and am debating condensing/modulating vs cheaper unit with reset.

Firedragon_4

Sorry Joel I don't get that paper,

I live in Northwest.

I don't sit on the BFPR, just the CMR4 sub-committee and CO detectors are not in our domain. That would be a Building Code issue or the BFPR.

I agree with you after reading the article elsewhere however. As a business owner (?) you would have much more input than I would anyway.

May I suggest you write up your story and complaints along with some suggestions and you can e-mail it here:
http://www.mass.gov/dfs/osfm/boards/bfpr.htm
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=ocahomepage&L=1&L0=Home&sid=Eoca

These are the people who will get it fixed, FACT!

joel_19

auburn

Sure that is not a problem that's close by! We go up to Lexington , Concord ,Princeton etc. A two hr comute is a pretty common thing here. Auburn is 20-30 minutes tops.

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