Blog on Broomell Vapor, P. Linhardt

Dave Meers

Thought for the day,

Something has bothered me for awhile, and I woke up last night thinking about it. We all know how important good venting is for a steam system, and vapor systems especially. The quicker the air is out of the system, the faster the steam gets to the radiators. The faster the air is out of the main, the more even the heat is at he farthest radiators. Dan has preached this for years and I believe it to be the gospel truth. AIR OUT! It is one of the three principles that I try to teach to anyone that asks. It is one of the three legs a good system stands on.

Recently, on a thread here on the wall, I ran across someone trying to restore a Broomell system. I wanted to give him every encouragement, so I was copying some things from our archives to send to him. Again this nagging thought started in my brain. There is no main air vent at the end of the supply main. Check it out. Go to Library, then Steam vapor/vacuum heating, then the Broomell system, then page 16. It shows a typical installation. This was what was bugging me. No main air vents.

Of course, it was a coal-fired system. It also had the end of the dry return connected to the inside of the chimney. Whenever there was a fire in the boiler, there was a draft going up the chimney. This induced a slight vacuum on the whole return side of the system. Since the coal fire was slow to make steam, but the draft was there from the moment someone started the fire, the air was probably removed from the end of the supply mains too. Trace it out. Air is pulled through the open Vapor valve, radiator, vapor elbow, return line, condensing radiator, and then the pipe to chimney. No need for vents in the coal era. By the time steam left the boiler, the air had left the system. Wonderfully simple.

Today, we need air vents at the end of the supply mains, great big ones or racks of smaller ones. Steamhead is often telling people this in his many responses to people's problems here on the wall. I have known this for years, but somehow got confused about he reason in my dream state last night. We have to get the air out of the main, since in an automatic-fired system, steam comes roaring out of the boiler rather quickly. Therefore the venting has to keep up. No vacuum to pull the air out.

Hope this helps. The more you know the reason why, the easier it is to do the right thing.

Questions or comments welcome.

Best regards, Pat

Mad Dog

Exactly my type of steam thinkin man............................

We rehabbed a 2 pipe vapor system 2 seasons ago. It was an old Hoffman system...but Diff. loop was long gone or coulda even been before the Loop was used. Anyway. This was a large Long Island Gold COast mansion. In fact, the man who built it was Mr Jones...(JONES BEACH). The current homeowner found us here via Find a Pro ad. He had been through everyone.....the best steam guys in the large oil companies....the best guys at the Gas utility..and countless others. His oil burner ran all the time, cycled on and off and his bills were huge!~!!!! I went in and fortunately the basement was unfinished - you could see everything. There were 3 large mains 3". They ran to the end of the basemnet and then dropped down in to loop seals...no crossover traps. Anyway, I went home to mull it over. I thought why not?????? I vented all the steam mains with a battery of Gorton #2s AND also the ends of the dry returns. Long Story short: The guys oil bills were cut by almost 60%...and now all the rads started getting hot in about 35 minutes as opposed to 1 1/2 HOURS!!!!!!! It was a smashing steam victory for me and him. Needless to say, the oil company was NOT happy and wanted to come in for an inspection...they though he was stealing oil or something. I think I used 13 Gorton #2s. I have a Marsh Vapor system I'm rehabbing this coming week. I will do the same thing. Mad Dog

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Steamhead

I vented a Broomell that way

also a VECO which is practically the same thing. Big difference.

You are right about the coal fire- once the steam was up it stayed up, and once the air was out it stayed out. So what if the venting process took an hour? We don't have that kind of time today, on every oil or gas firing cycle.

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gerry gill

just wondering

what stops anyone else from venting the return pipe vent into the chimney these days? I only ask cause we still do on the mouats. Seems to help..I favor the use of a strap on aquastat on the pipe just in case steam gets there, it will shut the boiler down..just throwing in my 2 cents..by the way Pat, I have air out, water back running thru my brain constantly as I work troubleshooting..excellant book and a great way to get the point across...it sticks in the memory easily..

RC

Steam system wishing

I really wish I could run into some of those more exotic steam systems. Where I'm at, I usually run into one-pipe systems, that some idiot has neglected.I also take care of a few Webster Vapor,and Trane vapor systems. Maybe one of these days!

gerry gill

webster and trane both

had some really neat stuff, so enjoy that part..we work on alot of mouat systems just cause he was a local clevelander and put over 9000 systems in here, according to an old business journal entry..so we see mainly his stuff and mainly in just a couple neighborhoods..Broomell was from philly i think..so i'm surprised he made it to cincinatti..i may have to do a road trip to see one..i'm thinking alot of these systems were ''local'' except the really big names..

Dave Meers

mo venting mo better

Thanks Steamhead, keep on ventin', and thanks for all your effort towards keeping steam alive and well.

Best regards, Pat

Dave Meers

chimney venting

Hi Gerry,

Thanks for sharing that tip with the aquastat. Broomell was out of Philly, and I believe there is a regionality to where some of these systems are. It depended on contractors and engineers preferences, the supply house's and the manufacturer's reps abilities to influence buying decisions, etc. Not unlike how boilers or pumps will be very popular in one area and not another.

Glad to hear the jingle (steam up - air out - water back) is working. I do hope you think about some other things, like cold beer and warm beaches.

Best regards, Pat

Dave Meers

mo venting mo better, mon

Hi MAD DOG,

Thanks for the story, you done good man...It is amazing how many people don't realize the importance of venting, after Dan has preached it for years.

Best regards, Pat

Dave Meers

steam dreaming

Hi Ross,

Keep on dreaming and looking. I see something new all the time, even on the routine jobs.

Best regards, Pat

Mike T., Swampeast MO

So What if the Process Took an Hour?

Too bad that no manufacturers seem interested in making a steam boiler with modulating flame. An hour of fire is nothing to a modulating boiler. Just a "pipe dream" I suppose...

Boiler Guy

Pat, Matt, Steamhead and others of course

I just started a thread titled 1912 this AM after reading this one. Maybe your collective talent will assistme with my quest. I ENVY you gentlemen IMMENSLEY!!!! You get to touch all that old exotic touch I only read about in books. Keep steamin dudes!!!

Dave Meers

good question

Hi Mike,

I suppose steam is not a growth market, not worthy of research dollars to develop. I have played with the idea of a modulating fire steam boiler, and although it is complicated, it seems feasible. I just don't think a manufacturer is going to see the vision.

How about a vacuum producer to simulate the chimney draft of an old coal fired system. Hell, it wouldn't take much of a fan to do that, and we could modulate the speed, and it could be DC for better control, and like gerry gill says put a temp sensor on it in case we get steam back to it, and.....

It is fun to think of the possibilities. Steam on.

Best regards, Pat