Installing period Gas Lighting

Jeff_32

My wife and I are finishing the restoration on our Victorian home and are re-installing the gas wall sconces that were originally in our dinig room. Does anyone know which burners/nozzles I can use within the glass fitter shade that will give the PROPER flame for natural gas. Originally, coal gas was used, but of course, today, we are using natural gas! The sconces will be used MAYBE once or twice a year and during house tours....and not used for daily lighting or use. I was told I should use a batwing burner for best results in natural gas...but where or who still makes these for my purposes?

Boiler Guy

Page Tim M

on the wall. I bet he can help.

Jeff_32

Thanks...

I just sent out a post. I know it is possible, but few people are experts in this field.

Jeff

Boiler Guy

Here is the full

name Tim McElwain

Glen

Are these with or -

without a mantle? I have done a number of remote lodges etc - some even had nat gas but most were propane. I would first check with your local authority - but once that hurdle is cleared - size the orifices as per the lighting fixture mfg recommends. Even if you are refurbishing older units - the rating will be listed somewhere or you may have to cross reference orifice sizing. It can be done successfully.

Jeff_17

I will be installing...

PERIOD gas fixtures. There is no "Set of directions" with these, unfortunately. I am looking for the proper parts touse at the end of the gas nozzle. Some people call them Batwing burners and they look like a small tower about 1.5 inches high with a ceramic insert with a slit cut into it.....I hear they are no longer made, so originals must be used

Mark Eatherton1

I'd be wary

of carbon monxide production...

Proceed with extreme caution.

ME

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Jeff_17

These fixtures

would burn MAYBE two - three times per year...at Christmas Eve dinner with a window nearby....and during a house tour that I expect the house to be on two times per year....They will not be used for day-day lighting!

Matt Undy

I would also make sure the gas lights are on seperate piping from the modern appliances and there is a modern valve to keep that system turned off when it isn't being used.

Matt

Maine doug_11

The burners

are available. I am picking up glass in NJ but will get out the laptop where I think I stored a supplier of batwings and tube burners. Otherwise when I get home I have some info.

Glen

Originals eh!

So can I assume that coal gas was the first fuel? If so the original could possibly work just fine if gas pressures & btu content were matched to original output. What size of orifice is existing? The trick is to achieve a luminous flame - which according to modern standards - is unacceptable due to the previous post and the concern of CO. It is important to know by which method the coal gas was produced as it varies from about 520 - 599 btu/cuft, and at which pressures it was delivered to the home. Natural gas would be the better fuel to convert to as coal gas was primarily methane - a small package air/fuel mixer could reduce the btu content to your needs while maintaining sufficient pressures. This may be more complex than you need for seasonal usage - approach the project carefully.

gerry gill

maybe these guys can help....

http://www.gas-lights.com/

Weezbo

i have seen many of very old gas lights...

mostly they were the rage when they were laying on gas a long time ago...perhaps you can check records in England ..and perhas also try The gas light ...if its still around in, Bermuda.....i have been in Alaska many years now so these things wel l...arent other than propane around here for the most part...many homes used the gas lights out of doors, and when i was just a twerp the streets and the police (bobby box) had really old gas lights instead of electric....

bob_44

Safety

Jeff, I hope you had a combustion analyzer when you comissioned that gas appliance. I didn't notice a pressure tap to check gas pressure. I would install at least three CO detectors one at the ceiling one at the floor and one in the middle you never know which way the CO will go. I didn't see any flame safegard controls in the photo. You could braze a bracket on the side for a flame rod or a fire-eye. Personally I would go for a double block and vent with hi/lo pressure switches, cut a hole in the wall and install a fan for pre and post purge cycles as you don't want any combustables in the combustion chamber/room. I almost forgot be sure to contact the manufacturer for permission in writing before making any mods. I apologize in advance for being a smart ****. :-) bob

Jeff_32

C'mon guys.....

Give me a break here. The light will be lit at most 2-4 hours PER YEAR in a HUGE first floor Victorian. The purpose is to go back to ONE original gas sconce..... for HISTORICAL purposes. I just want to know if anyone can recommend someone that has installed these old lights. I have contacted three people in different parts of the US who still use GAS LIGHTING in their homes....and they have been somewhat helpful. Articles about in Victorian Homes Magazine about people still having and using them. Just thought someone here had some more insight.

Geo_5

carbon monxide

I beleive the massachusetts codes states you can have an unvented open flame under 5k btu's without a problem, just wondering what the carbon monxide crowd does on thanksgiving when all 4 burners are going along w/ the stove???, yes this is a killer but please, an outside gas light is only 2500 btu's, how much could an inside light be??.

Maine doug

burners

Here is one style of burner

http://www.gasproductscompany.com/gas_lights/parts.htm

not quite 1/2 way down page. The burner top produces the classic fan shape.

Mark Eatherton1

Carbon Monoxide won't...

give you a break... It only takes once to maim or possibly kill you. If there were some way to do it without CO, rest assured these people would know and would direct you that way.

Some times, the "good old days" weren't as good as they appeared...

ME

Mark Eatherton1

Only you...

would come up with a double block and vent...:-)

Would that be IRI or FMI approved lighting, forget about UL...

ME

Constantin

Jeff...

IMHO, you are facing several issues:

1) The gas being burned today is very different from the gas back then. Most city gas sources were derived from coal and other fuels, resulting in a very different caloric mix than todays (mostly methane city gas).

I say mostly, because the gas utility is known to mix all sorts of things into city gas that have no business there in the depths of winter when the gas co starts to run out of methane as well. Regardless of what surprises the utility may have for you, burners that used to run cleanly on the stuff that was made back then may not work well today...

So, I would make sure that whatever burners you retrofit actually burn cleanly using todays gas supply. This may or may not be easy but the only way to know is to test the thing.

2) More importantly, the old city gas supplies were quite contaminated with CO. It's the reason why old movies show people putting their heads in ovens, I hear. Why didn't more people die then from CO?

Back then, homes were extremely drafty, which diluted the CO. Even better, due to the Spanish flu and the widespread belief that bad air caused its spread , many homeowners back then had the windows open, even in the depths of winter.

Now, it is my understanding that you have restored the home to its former glory, but I also assume that you updated a couple of details under the desirable patina, such as the insulation. If the infiltration is much lower now than it used to be, then your safety margin running these lights is also diminished.

3) So, by all means, get some lights set up... but use a pro that knows how to test such puppies. He/she will also ensure that the installation is legal and that it burns cleanly.

I also second the call for a sensible CO detector in the room that these lights burn in (such as a COExperts unit that can be bought for a very reasonable cost at Aeromedix) just to be extra safe. It's cheap insurance.

Jeff_32

Insulation is the same as it was in 1903...

NONE.

The house still has its original front doors...(DRAFTY ****)...it has not been sided.....has its original clapboards....just the windows were changed....the stained glass ones are original and leak like sieves....

And when the light is lit, the CO detectorS will be on and a window will be open...