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apologies to jim davis

jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
I've realized too late that we are from different backgrounds, I made assumptions about your background which were incorrect.

we speak similar but different languages. lots of times phrases are used in a generalistic terms by some, and in a very specific manner by others. thus fights erupt and both parties are confused by the others statements.

as in your CO2 measurements from the conference room:

I would have had to give error in my measurements. as in the bacharach monoxorII which has an error of +- 5% of readings.

then the reading would have been given as 470ppm +- 23ppm and 505ppm +-25ppm. with a measured difference of 35ppm, and error from 493ppm low measure to 480ppm high measure. you can see they now overlap.

I would have said the differences were too close be to concidered higher levels at ceiling than floor.

this is how I was trained.

try a search:
"error in measurements"

"error in instruments"

"accuracy and precision"

I also would have concluded that it was possble that walking and breathing in the room while measuring could effected measurements. put a couple of smoke candles in the room and have someone walk through, you can see how they effect room air currents.

just different background training.

to Tim McElwain:

to answer your question, if I was asked if CO was lighter than air I would say:

yes but thats not the reasons for its behavior in homes.
since it is a byproduct of burning and as "hot air rises" so does CO. If you walk into a room where someone has started smoking, you will see the smoke rise and start dispersing. after time has pasted you return to see no smoke but smell it ALL over the room and in adjacent rooms, so acts CO.

sure its better to mount CO detectors higher than lower.

I left the other thread since it turned into a urinating contest, not interested in such things.

I admit I threw some manure that I should not have thrown! sorry.

please remember: science is NOT exact. you can read that in any chemistry book.


  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    If you knew these guys and had studied under them

    you would have been a bit smoother, but that is what happens when we are typing responses and comments and are not able to read body langauge, facial expressions et cetera. Think about how we interacy with fellow man in person. Tone, inflection, volume of speech, posture and many other things are read and proceesed and influence how conversations go. You put up a decent fight, but you really could learn alot from these gents. Ahhhh eye ght. Mad Dog

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  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
    well said

    Dog !

    Wish more people understood that.

    JP's post sounds like an olive branch, hope it gets taken.


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  • Tony_8
    Tony_8 Member Posts: 608
    this happens

    Frequently here, too frequently.

    JP ASKED a question and quoted Jim Davis as part of his query. He didn't make a statement of derision and say he was wrong. He asked "how can this be ?"

    If you read that thread with that in mind you will see who cast the first stone, and who joined in the stoning. From my vantage point, it's the usual suspects.

    The Wall is for questions, it says so right on the home page :)

    The word "interloper" has been used from time to time. I think that's inappropriate. This site isn't an exclusive club, is it ? Educate the "interloper" and you've gained another peer, drive them off and you have a detractor. What do YOU think is better ?

    And that finishes my vent for the day :)

    ONWARD !
  • Sweet_2
    Sweet_2 Member Posts: 143

    JP Ive read about 80% of that debate and dont think you need to apologize. All due respect to All, there are people here that cannot be questioned without reprisal. Questions, thats how we learn.
  • Jim Davis_3
    Jim Davis_3 Member Posts: 578

    Apology was not necessary because nothing you said was beyond curiosity. I reread everything I posted and you posted and do not see where you and I attacked each other at all. There was another one that got a little hostile, but I could tell he knew less about the heating business and combustion than you and wasn't interested in learning. Being in the business of trying to help save peoples lives. I pretty much throw all books out the window when in the field including my own because no matter how many times you see something there is always a chance it could be different the next time. If this site was a construction site and the discussion was 2 x 4's it could have been just as controversial. Your input is always welcome.
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    I was thinking about you the other night at 7:00 ...

    as we stood in front of a POS boiler that was dumping 2500 PPM into the flue stream. I could have easily walked from this job. It was NOT my problem, and it had been this way for 40 years. But then I got to thinking, what would I do if someone dies from is sick puppy.. So, we (me and Robert Davis, service man extraordinaire) grab the tools and ripped the burners apart and cleaned them up. Put it back together and fired it up and STILL had 2000 PPM CO. Got to checking things out (manometer) and found that we had 7" water column gas pressure at the BURNER, and no friggin regulator to be found.

    Did the manual chokey thing to the gas valve to get it down to 3-1/2" WC at the manifold and the CO dropped to 400 PPM. Still not low enough.

    I thought back to what you'd taught me, closed my eyes, opened my mind, and looked in the combusion chamber and found the flames impinging on the cast iron sections. Lowered the manifold down to 2-1/2 inches and dropped the CO to 20 PPM.

    I was a little woosey from the background 35 PPM Co in the mechancial room...but was able to sleep that night knowing I'd done the right thing. I'm going to get a boiler sale out of this one, I guarantee you. The HO was extremely impressed. To quote him, "I called you out here to look at a room that was over heating, and you saved my family from potential death."

    Just doing my job.

    Thanks for your knowledge and wisdom Jim. Without it I probably wouldn't have even bothered testing.

    Makes on wonder how many time bombs there are out there ticking away eh...

    A milliion thanks.

  • Larry (from OSHA)
    Larry (from OSHA) Member Posts: 716

    Way to go!!! At some time in the past, I bet you didn't know that part of your job description was saving lives. Your dedication to your customers and profession is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.

    Larry (from OSHA)
  • jp_2
    jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
    mad dog

    its not about fighting, its about debating ideas. you can read my post which ever you please, nothing I can do about that...
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    That's reminds me of The Riello gas burner I just put in

    I spent HOURS!!!!!! adjusting the co down...Jim taught us well. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
    Debating is a controlled (er sometimes)verbal fight

    Call it what it is....in any case it does bring forth the best of ideas and sometimes the worst of tempers. Scotty...oil-branch? I just snapped it in half...hah! Just kidding. I'm sorry if I got a little aggressive on you, J.P., I just don't like to see my mentors skewered..I know they are big boys and can handle themselves. I am a very loyal dog. Peace man, Mad Dog

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